For a long time, I don't know how long, I've considered the contradiction between "separation from God" and God's omnipresence. If God is omnipresent, which He is, then how could He be separated from anything? This is where I distinguish between the omnipresence of God, and the special presence of God. Regarding God's omnipresence, and Hell, I think of Psalm 139:7-8:
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.On a few occasions, when evangelizing someone, I have made this distinctive, that in one sense nothing is separated from God, because He is omnipresent. However, I believe eternal separation from God is taught, and Hell is the place of eternal separation from God. Here are some reasons that come to my mind from scripture, not in any necessary order.
One, eternal separation from God is taught in Revelation 21-22, an appropriate place to talk about that. Revelation 21:23-27 read:
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.In the place described where God is and His glory is, some people would be there, but "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth." Only those in the Lamb's book of life would be there, which means that those not in the Lamb's book of life would not be there.
Then Revelation 22:14-15 say:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Here some are in the gates of the same city mentioned, and then "without" are others. Revelation 22:19 continues:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city.God takes away his part out of the holy city. All three of these places combined teach separation from God. It misses the point to say, "You're all going to be with me, but the others, they are going to be with me too!" No, the others are not going to be with Him; they are going to be separated from Him.
Two, in John 14:2-3, Jesus taught His disciples:
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.Jesus said He would go to prepare a place for His own, that where He was, they would be also. Jesus was distinguishing His unique relationship with His disciples as in Heaven being were they were and they being where He is. It wouldn't be unique if He would be with them and everyone else too, who rejected Him. Non-disciples would not be with Him -- Jesus, God -- hence, they would be separated from Him.
Three, a regular statement of the Lord Jesus, Who is God, toward those He sends to Hell is "depart from me," as seen in Matthew 7:23,
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Also Matthew 25:41,
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Departing from God is to be separated from Him.
Four, God is light and the presence of God is light (1 John 1:5). The Lord gives the light of the eternal state (Revelation 21:5). And yet, someone in Hell is in outer darkness, "cast out into outer darkness" (Matthew 8:12). If there is an outer, then there is an inter. If someone is with God, Who is light, then He stays in that light. He is a child of light (Lk 16:8, Jn 12:36, Eph 5:8, 1 Thess 5:5). Outer darkness is separated from God, Who is light, which is why it is outer darkness, because God isn't present.
Five, speaking of the separation of the lost from God, Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 1:9:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
"From the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" is very clear. The everlasting destruction is not in this lifetime, but the next, so it is talking about someone who dies in his sin and goes to Hell.
Scripture can speak of someone being "absent from the Lord" (2 Cor 5:6). Since God is omnipresent, then no man can escape that presence, but yet here's a verse that says he is absent from the Lord. The two ideas can go together. David prays to God in Psalm 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence." Unless God can cast away someone from His presence, there is no need for someone to cry to God, cast me not away from it.
More could be said to make this argument, but Hell is separation from God. It's not only separation from God, but it's at least separation from God. To say Hell is eternal separation from God means that once someone has died physically, he has no more opportunity to be saved. He remains separated from God because of His sin.
4 comments:
What about this:
Revelation of John 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel,
It can't be both, that is not in His presence and yet in His presence, at least in the same sense. They are different Greek words in Revelation 14 and in 2 Thessalonians 1:9. The former is enopion and the latter is prosopon. In BDAG, the former can mean "in view, in the sight of" and the latter means "personal presence or relational circumstance." The two are different. The two have to harmonize. God says, depart from me, but He is still omnipresent. The sinner is separated from the personal presence and the relational circumstance. At the same time, God is overseeing all this. Barnes writes: "This also may mean either that the condemnation will occur in his presence, or that the punishment will be under his eye." Cambridge Greek Testament, "Only one translation of these words is possible: they prove that the holy angels, and the Lamb Himself, acquiesce or something more in the justice and necessity of God’s awful judgements."
Hi Kent,
I think the secret to the apparent conundrum is indeed two separate meanings to the words "presence of." The reprobate Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, yet God is ever omnipresent, His eye in every place beholding both the evil and the good. To be in God's presence is a spiritual blessing - ascending into the hill of the Lord, entering into the holiest of all by the blood of Jesus etc.
Re Hell: I have often thought down the line that since Hell is a place (of torment) and God is everywhere present at one and the same time (omnipresence) - may it not be said that God is indeed in Hell itself - but present only in the fury of His wrath? Perhaps it is this that adds to the torments of Hell - that hopeless sinners cannot escape His absolute holy and penetrating look, conscious that that they have sinned (and continue to sin) but that there is no offer or even hope of forgiveness.
Just a thought,
Colin Maxwell
I agree Colin.
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