Monday, June 19, 2006

Government, Family, Church: Why More?

Seven days. Spoken word. How God created the earth. Tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. How God lived on earth. We can't flee from Him, fool Him, or fight Him. He understands all mysteries and all knowledge. Nothing occurs to Him. Oh, and then He is love, and He loves us. And He designed and established three institutions for this age in which we live: government, family, and church.

We aren't to complain about any of the three. We are to submit to all three. Break down any of the three and society is sent into something worse than a tail spin. God establishes all three in Scripture. Government. Submit yourselves to the higher powers. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars. Family. A man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Husbands love your wives. Wives submit yourselves to your own husbands. Fathers bring your children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Church. Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. God's Word is sufficient for every good work.

Sometimes the three will clash. Duties do conflict. Government conflicts with church. Obey God rather than men. Family conflicts with church. Let the dead bury the dead. Love God and hate father and mother. In short, Christ is the head of every man.

They each have their unique responsibilities. Family is responsible for training children, not the government. The church is responsible for the truth, not the government. The government is responsible for punishing evil-doers, not the church or the family. In certain ways each is responsible to the other. In other ways, some of the duties overlap.

It's a great system. After all, God set it up and He knows everything. But then, men try improve on it. Why? Well, um, we know so much? Uh, the Bible's an old book and so it didn't cover everything? Because I want to? Do we really think that any reason will be a good one? I hope not. It is possible that this could be something like adding or taking away from God's Word, isn't it? From what I've read in Scripture, God doesn't like that with sometimes very serious consequences.

So what great embellishments have men contributed to what God instituted? "Let's have the government teach children." That hasn't worked out so well, huh? Neither has day care. "Let's have psychologists tell people what's good or bad about their souls." More books than ever by these folks and more problems also. "Let's have something other than the church teach truth. How about para-church colleges, universities, or seminaries? And we'll have them tell us what the Bible is too." I'm sure they're well intentioned. So we'll just let this one slip by.


Jeff Voegtlin said...

You changed your picture!

Probably makes you sad that that's the only comment I have to make on this good post. But,,,

Kent Brandenburg said...

Not sad. Glad. I thought the other pic could possibly be a problem for some, too much of an inside joke really.

Throwback 13 said...

* The picture was a joke?
* A good post. Did I miss something, though? Do churches ever encroach on the domain of Christian homes?
* "Caesars" needs an apostrophe. O.K., I'm ducking, I'm ducking. Don't throw that book at me. (:-}

Ruth said...

Way inside joke, Pastor B. I agree Jeff. And you are correct Throwback. I think we all got behind with the children when we allowed prayer to be taken out of the schools. That was the only place some of them ever heard prayer. Then it was the "Ten Commandments". Again we have failed the children. Juvenile delinquency has increased some 40% since then. We have a saying around here that the hands that are folded in prayer can't hold a gun; a hand with a bible in it doesn't kill anyone. True, Pastor we have allowed society to dictate how we raise our children....if we allow them to do that we have failed them and God.
Let's step back and take a good look at our clergy today. What are they doing in the "show and tell" department? I'm still angry over the Episcopal Convention elections and all the "hoop-lala". That is not good intentions...and you can ask anyone here or you can get over to Blessings Hill,there is a post..


Dave Mallinak said...

I hurried back so I could comment on your blog again... so that will explain the lousiness of the comment. First, to Ruth. We all got behind with the children a long time before we allowed prayer to be taken out of the public schools. We got behind with the children way back when we started public schools, prayer and all. On the day we founded government schools, government began establishing religion. At first they appeased the majority, and guess what! They still are. I pray for the day when the government schools collapse. Oh, and by the way, do you really consider Episcopals to be anything more than priests of Baal?

Next, Joel... yes, churches encroach on the domain of the Christian home, almost as often as homes encroach on the domain of the local church.

Finally, Pastor B., I enjoyed this. I like your new picture. It reminds of the book you are writing. I can't wait to see you throw it. I liked the style of the post. Good meter. Sentence Fragments. Almost had a rhythme. One thing. A possible cause for the "conflict" in duties would be a neglect of the Lordship of Christ over everything. If we recognize the Lordship of Christ, our duties will be clear, and will not conflict, though the institutions attempt to cause conflict. Institutions create conflict when they attempt to usurp authority, when they make themselves the ultimate authority.

Throwback 13 said...

* Pastor Mallinak,
* Good reply, with a clarity and insight that cut to the core. Especially about the conflict of duties.

Ruth said...

Pastor M, what I consider the Episcopals to be is of no consequence. My point is the message they are sending. Not being of that flock, I am secure in what I believe. Public schools? I absolutely agree. However, again, my point is that praying is a great part of life, and it should be started in the home and continued thru schools, etc.
Thanks for the comments...and Blessings,

Bro Tim said...

This is a good post. What are you actually. I am a bornagain independent baptist. I am a preacher of the Gospel found you site through Bro Jerry's just thought check it out I am trying to branch out with the blog the Lord has given me. Please come by sometime.

Bro Tim

Anonymous said...

Well......greetings BROS?? I have been reading these and SI for some time..they are good for laughs and sometimes good for life lessons; scriptural information but, this one is just way out!! The one before was kinda wild! So, this is my second post...first and last. I cannot play in the "good-ole-boys" cornor. 'Cause I am neither " Voegtlinism, Brandenburgism nor enjoy your "king of the mountain" game.Throwback 13 what are you doing in here?

The sinner

Jeff Voegtlin said...


I'm offended. I had a following and nobody let me know! Oh well. I guess I better get out and rally the troops.

So much to do, so little time to do it!

Jeff Voegtlin said...

At least my "ism" has a name. It's VOEGTLINISM!! Get it right now.

But yours, it has no name. It's anonymous-ism (I'm smiling). It's very hard to put your finger on it, you know.

Anyway, "The sinner" just got me all stirred up. I didn't think I was so influential as to have an "ism" named after me.

Oh, maybe it's not me! There are other Voegtlins out there. But none that post on this blog. So it must be all about me. Ooops! Better watch out for pride, but I just know that my blog and my comments are just tearing the world to shreads and lighting it up everywhere. Pretty soon USA Today is going to be asking for an interview. Oh, just wait, the phone's ringing...

Throwback 13 said...

* Anonymous ("The sinner") took keyboard in hand and questioned: " ... Throwback 13 what are you doing in here?"
* Good question. Perhaps it is time I stopped and formed an answer.
* 1. My history: I was born, saved, and raised under a flawed system of protestant theology, of which my father was a proponent. When confronted with the pressures of my own love of the world and the ridicule of my peers (U.S. Air Force), my improper teaching did not strengthen me and I fell a long way, even to the point of demanding that God get out of my life (1963). "But God" ... What a wonderful phrase ... what a wonderful truth ... But God rescued me from my hatred and confusion and by His gentle love, placed my feet on solid ground. At the root of that rescue was a correct understanding of God (doctrine), especially that God is Love, not an ogre waiting to crush me as if I were a beetle. But for this value to last, it must be based on sound Biblical theology. Though I began to attend and even join Baptist churches as I moved around the country, it was not until 1970 that I learned enough to become a true Baptist.
* 2. My passion: My salvation, to me, was not do I want to go to Hell or Heaven, but who is right, God or myself? At three years old I knew that God was right and I was wrong, and when I took steps (literally) in obedience to that decision, God saved me. What guided me from the point was that I realized God's nature is love, especially love for me, what drove me was the quest to learn what is right and to live by it. I do not know that in this I am any different than any other Christian in this neighborhood, but I do know that there those who profess to be saved but do not care to take that which is right and apply it to their own life.
* To be sure, I have differences with some of the people who blog in this neighborhood. But, I am convinced that the men who post their thoughts on these pages are men that have a like purpose in their life, to learn and do that which is right. I therefore value not only where we agree, but also where we don't agree, as it forces me to examine my beliefs in the light of Scripture and if I can't defend them, I must change them to that which I can defend from Scripture.
* 3. My opportunity: I have had time to gather up some experience and experiences that convince me that given a chance, even the best of men will occasionally stray, especially me. I therefore test all teachings of man and examine them in the light of Scripture as the Holy Spirit directs. That includes what I have taught in the past, as well.
* Now that I am retired, I have more time to engage in that search for the truth which has long been my quest. I hope to first expand and ground my own beliefs and to grow in my knowledge of and fellowship with God. I next hope to be a fit member of my church, doing that which God has equipped me to do.
* 4. My practice: As long as God gives me the opportunity and the strength, I intend to clarify my beliefs and place them down on paper in some form that others may be provoked to examine them also, thus they may learn also. I cannot barrage my pastor with all of my ideas, whether we agree or disagree, because God has given him other responsibilites. I therefore engage him with only those things that come to the forefront, usually with things he has recently preached or taught about, things with which he is recently familiar, as I believe the Holy Spirit leads me. These discussions are done privately, as I have no desire to stir up strife or gender doubts about his authority.
* But the blogs are a public forum. What is said here becomes public record for perhaps millions to read. When a blogger tosses out a concept, he is opening the door for discussion, both that which is in agreement (always feels good) and that which is not (usually the real value). This gives me an opportunity to agree, disagree, or to question. The answers I get enrich my knowledge and give insight into the motives of the commentors. [ I prefer that word to common - tators, for God told Peter, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." (:-} ] As iron sharpeneth iron, I hope that their (and your) iron will sharpen my iron.

* Thanks, Pastor Brandenburg, for letting me rattle on,
* Speaking through my hat ...
* ... Joel