Some might argue that the pretribulational, premillennial rapture of the saints doesn't have a historical basis. Some might say that amillennialism is the preferred position because this was the view of Augustine and then the Reformers. Others call for a postmillennial return of the Lord because this was a dominant eschatalogical position in 19th century America and England. Charles Hodge espoused postmillennialism. The premillennial return of Christ is the oldest historic position, because it is what one reads in the patristics (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California; Harper & Row, 1959], 464-89), including a pretribulational rapture in the writings of Irenaeus and Hermas. J. C. Ryle was a strong premillennialist in the 19th century (Nathaniel West [ed.] Premillennial Essays of the Prophetic Conference held in the Church of the Holy Trinity, New York City [Chicago, Illinois: Fleming H. Revell Publishers, 1879; reprint, Minneapolis, Minnesota: Klock and Klock Christian Publishers, 1981], 332). One will find it difficult to discern historically whether someone was post, mid, or pretribulational rapture. Charles Spurgeon was most clearly post-tribulational, but he was not dogmatic, rarely preached eschatology, and saw it is a difficult issue to discern.Among all of historic theology, I place the least emphasis on eschatology. Why? Daniel 12:4, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." I believe that here we see authoritative teaching that as we get closer to the end, knowledge concerning the things Daniel wrote about, that is, prophetic material, would increase. Eschatological knowledge of Scripture increases as we get closer to the end. This position can be seen in the history of eschatological doctrine. For instance, postmillennialism was popular in the 19th century because theologians saw the Victorian age blooming into a golden era capped off by the return of Jesus Christ. On the other hand, before them, the reformers found in the Antichrist a prophecy of the Papacy of Roman Catholicism. The oldest eschatology is Biblical. If we see it in Scripture, then that is the right position.
In the first article in this series, we saw how that the doctrine of imminency supported a pretribulational rapture of the saints. Imminency was apostolic doctrine as seen in the New Testament. This continued as the belief of Christians. Concerning the parousia or coming of Christ, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (1901, V, 66) says, 'Primitive Christianity believed the event to be imminent and this belief has been revived from time to time in the history of the Church." Christians historically have looked for the any moment return of Christ. This doctrine necessitates a pretribulational rapture.
Not only does imminence require this, but....
2. THE ABSENCE OF THE CHURCH IN THE TRIBULATION REQUIRES A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE
The tribulation is a time for Israel. Not in one place does Scripture, either Old or New Testaments, speak of the church in relation to the tribulation, except as gone to heaven. This silence speaks as loudly as any actual statement in Scipture, especially in light of what God says concerning Israel and the tribulation.
And there are statements that explain why the church is missing from the tribulation.
Romans 5:9, "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
1 Thessalonians 1:10, "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
Revelation 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
The tribulation is wrath.
Revelation 6:16, 17, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
If God spares His children from wrath, then we would expect not to find the church in the passages of Scripture dealing with the tribulation. We don't. You can read Revelation 2 and 3 and find nineteen mentions of church or churches. In Revelation 4 through 19, you will see none. The churches are gone.
On the other hand, Israel is in Revelation 4-19, because the tribulation period is for Israel, for her restoration (Jeremiah 30:3, 10), and for a Christ-rejecting world (Revelation 14:8, 18:8) to judge the Gentiles (Jeremiah 30:11). The tribulation is a time of God's retribution on the nations and defending Israel (Zechariah 12:8, 9), not on those who have placed their faith in Him. The tribulation period is the time of Jacob's trouble--the emphasis is Jewish--and this prophecy goes all the way back to Deuteronomy 30:1-8 in three parts.
God gathers Israel from the wicked nations (Deut. 30:3).
That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
God brings Israel to the land (Deut. 30:5).
And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.God judges the enemies of Israel (Deut. 30:7, 8).
And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
God raptures the saints because His plan is finished for His churches. However, He isn't done with Israel (Daniel 9:24-27), and this is why the tribulation passages are full of Israel with the church being completely absent. Surely, if God has a plan for His churches, He would have included in the New Testament what they needed to minister during the tribulation period. He didn't and this fits right with the pre-tribulational rapture of the saints.
21 comments:
I think Rev. 3: 10 refers to the tribulation and it "comes on ALL THE WORLD" to "try" everyone, not just the Jews. I think other scriptures also show that it is not only with a single design for a single nation. The Gentiles will also be tested and tried in the tribulation.
About the wrath thing. You might have an argument if you could show, from the Apocalypse, where any believer suffers the wrath of God. We find them suffering the wrath of Satan, the wrath of the nations, but not the wrath of the Lord.
Besides, we have an analogy in the Exodus redemption. God then poured out his "wrath" on the entire land of Egypt. This land had both believers and unbelievers. By your reasoning the believers were in tribulation and therefor in wrath. But, this is not the case. They were protected from wrath, but they were there in the midst of it all.
I want to see those citations from the early church fathers that show they believed the tribulation would come after the coming of Christ and the rapture. Just to say that because some believed in some king of "imminencey" and therefore were "pre-trib" is a non sequiter.
Mary Magdonald began this new view that you are espousing.
Anyway, these are my thoughts. If I have another worth making, I trust I can add it later.
God bless my brother.
Stephen Garrett
www.baptistgadfly.blogspot.com/
Stephen,
First, regarding some patristic evidence of pre-tribulationalism, consider this quote from the Shepherd of Hermas: "You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then you prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and you spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly. Cast your cares upon the Lord, and He will direct them. Trust the Lord, you who doubt, for He is all-powerful, and can turn His anger away from you, and send scourges on the doubters."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02011.htm
I have no doubt the tribulation will try everyone on the earth, but that is the thing, those saved will be spared from that, and it is tell-tale that this comes in Rev. 3.
Rev. 6:16 says that it is the "wrath of the Lamb." Who is the Lamb? Rev. 6:1 says it is Jesus. So that settles this propositions. Jesus was the one who opened up the seals of wrath, so the wrath was coming from Him.
I don't understand your Exodus teaching. It seems like a stretch.
Thanks.
When I was a young believer, I was not convinced of the Pre-Trib position. Partly, I believe, it was due to some poor arguments and/or poor defenders of the position, and partly due to faulty Bible versions which changed the text enough to give a different view. Then for about two years I got caught up in the Pre-Wrath position - but there was always a couple of points that never seemed to fit (and looking back, I see how even the proponents of that position still had to play with the text of whatever Bible they were using to come up with all their points - PLUS, they actually redefined other end-times doctrines, including Who it was who hindered the Antichrist from coming in 2 Thessalonians 2).
Then in 98, I remember reading Luke in the NT while I was working through Isaiah in the OT, and saw two passages that were speaking about the same time period - the Tribulation.
Notice Luke's comments:
Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
The Pre-Wrath people will point to verse 28 and try to "prove" that the wrath was coming after that point; therefore their position was the right one. But Isaiah uses very similar language in his prophecies:
Isaiah 13:6-13 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
According to Isaiah, those in Luke (same description, same reaction of the people - covering the same period of time) were ALREADY IN the Day of the Lord, already in the time of God's wrath!
Ezekiel 21:7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
I could never understand why people (in the USA) never thought that we would have to endure persecution. Christians since the beginning have been tortured, killed, etc.
We choose to believe that we are going to sail through life and then be whisked away when the going gets tough.
I think God chooses not to let us in on what is going to really happen, because we would not be able to stand it mentally.
I look back on years past, and today Christians are being persecuted on a much greater scale than ever before.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Peace Peter
What does persecution have to do with whether we will be here for the Tribulation or not? The 7 year Tribulation period involves a lot more than persecution by evil leaders - it involves the pouring out of God's wrath on this world - something true believers are promised they will never have to endure. No one is saying no Christian will suffer persecution, but we will not suffer God's wrath.
Exactly, Brother Jerry.
Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source trib·u·la·tion (trĭb'yə-lā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n.
Great affliction, trial, or distress; suffering: Their tribulation has finally passed. See Synonyms at trial.
An experience that tests one's endurance, patience, or faith.
Most christians consider the tribulation as not from God's wrath, but because of God's wrath. In other words I know God will protect me, but I may have to endure what the neighbor may do to my family members, etc.
Christians throughout history had to endure the firery furnace, lions dens and the like. By their faith they were saved, but they were still put in place of danger and were willing to die if necessary.
why do you believe that you will not see anything like this but will be spirited away? Why do people assume that the tribulation period is only about God's wrath. Do you believe that Satan and his minions are not going to retaliate in some form?
Friends, we are going to see, feel and live the tribulations of these last days, but how strong our faith in God will be how easy to sail through it. Peace Peter
Peter, it all comes down to whether you believe the Scriptures or not. The Bible itself defines the Tribulation (singular, not plural) as a period of God's wrath. Those passages quoted above in Luke 21 and Isaiah 13 do so. These do as well:
Revelation 6:16-17 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
But the believer is promised complete deliverance from God's wrath:
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Mr. Bouey: I do believe in scripture and read the Bible:
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. Or Romans 8:18 For I consider that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Also 2 timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.and 2 Timothy 3:1 But know this in the last days perilous times will come.
Friends, we must all get prepared for hard times to come for God does not promise to deliver us from persecution or tribulations, but does promise to deliver us through the persecutions and tribulations. Peace Peter
Matthew 24 explains the tribulation. Vs 4: Take heed that no one deceives you.
Vs. 9: Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. vs. 15 starts off with Therefore when you see ... Vs 23 : Then if anyone says to you.... and vs 31: He will send His angels-they will gather together His elect...
If I read my Bible correctly and understand scripture, then I read where we will be here to witness God wrath, as did all the saints and prophets of old. How else would you be able to say "you will see" or "Let no one deceive you" No one could deceive you if you are in heaven-you would have to be here living on earth in order to be deceived.
Verse 22 even states that the days will be shorten-for the elect sake; in other words-those who are living will have to endure the tribulation along with the rest of the world- It rains on the just as well as the unjust.
Our faith in God is to see us through any and all tribulations-no matter how minor or major. Lisa Ransdell
Jerry,
Thanks for taking the time to answer here.
KB
Lisa, Context is very important when it comes to determining what the Bible teaches on something. The context of Matthew 24 is to the nation of Israel, not to the church. That is why you see references to the sabbath (which Christians have never been bound by), the temple, the Judean hills, etc. The people that are being warned about upcoming events of the Tribulation are the Jews that will be alive then, not those in the church age.
Jerry: I have often been called sola scripturia. I do take the Whole Bible litterally, it has proven so thus far.
I know that man changed the Sabbath law around 300 a.d. As far as I know God did not change the Sabbath. Jesus even said "I come not to change the law, but to fulfill it. One only has to look at our holidays to know that man has followed traditions instead of God's instructions since Adam and Eve (I believe they were real also).
I am not convinced that Matthew 24 is warning for the Jewish people either. Not many Jewish people read our Bible with the same understanding as Christians, and if it were for the Jewish Christians then the meaning of the chapter would apply for them as well as 'gentile' Christians.
Many theologians have studied the Bible to great extent. I am certainly not a theologian, all I can tell you about the Bible is what the Holy Spirit whispers to my heart about. Lisa Ransdell
Hi!
Just in response to Peter, I think there is a response to his comment that God doesn't tell us about the end times because we can't handle it mentally. According to Scripture, we CAN handle it BECAUSE He DOES tell us.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." (Amose 3:7)
I found online the following commentary regarding this verse (http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/3003.htm)
“Such secrets of God are revealed to them, that they may inform the people; that, by repentance and conversion, THEY MAY AVOID THE EVIL, and, by walking closely with God, secure the continuance of his favour.” (Clarke, emphasis mine)
God bless you.
Jonathan
In response to Peter who suggested that God will hide knowledge of the Rapture and Tribulation from us because we cannot mentally handle it, while the LORD's wrath will be amazing in His Glory, I believe He will and has shown truths about the time to come.
"Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).
God bless you,
Jonathan
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
Many fail to see that there are two distinct periods of tribulation in the second half of the seventieth week. The first is great tribulation upon the elect and Israel by the Beast and his followers. The second is tribulation from God upon the unbelieving Beast worshipers who have persecuted the elect and Israel. The passages below emphasize this fact.
Notice that the Lord will tribulate those who had been tribulating the church. Also notice when the church is said to have rest.
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Rest from persecution for the church will come when Jesus returns and gathers His church to himself on the same day He begins to pour out His wrath.
When Jesus returns, the great tribulation (Matt 24:21) which began in the middle of the week (Dan 9:27), which is that time of trouble that Daniel spoke of (Dan 12:1), will be cut short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). It is at that time that He will resurrect the dead in Christ (Dan 12:1-2, Rev 20:4-6, 1Cor 15:23, 51-52) and send the angels to catch up those who are alive and remain together with them, into the clouds (Rev 1:7), to be with Him (1Thes 4:15-17; Matt 24:31). It is after we are safely at the Father's house (John 14:3), before the throne of God (Rev 7:9-17) that His wrath begins to be poured out (Rev 8, 9, 16-19) suddenly (1Thes 5:2-3) on the very same day (Luke 17:26-30).
It can be shown that there are two periods of tribulation which make up the second half of the week, the last 3½ years prior to Christ's literal, physical, millennial reign, upon the throne of David in Jerusalem.
All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
The explicit statements of the Scriptures below make it clear that there are two distinct unparalleled periods of tribulation in the second half of the week.
When does the great tribulation begin? In the middle of the week
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
What comes after the great tribulation? The cosmic sign spoken of by Joel which is the precursor to Christ's return. Notice: that the days in context are those of great tribulation from verse 21.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
…
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Isa 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
“If these passages describe the cosmic sign of Joel 2:31, and they do, then it is an indisputable fact that the day of the Lord cannot begin until the great tribulation is over.”
Hallelujah
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
When the sun, moon, and stars go dark, accompanied by a great earthquake (Rev 6:12-17), the unbelieving beast worshipers who have been buying and selling, marrying and giving in marriage, eating and drinking, planting and building(Lk 17:26-30), and at the same time persecuting the church unto death (Matt 24:22), will be caught like a thief (1Thes 5:2-3) and attempt to hide from the Lord's impending wrath (Isa 2:19; Rev 6:12-17). However, those believers who are alive and remain (1Thes 4:17) will look up and lift up their heads for their redemption draweth nigh (Lk 21:28).
God's wrath, at the beginning of the day of the Lord, doesn't begin until the elect (all believers in Jesus Christ, both Jew and Gentile) are removed from the earth, after the great tribulation sometime in the second half of the week (1Thes 5:9). This He does right before His wrath falls suddenly upon the wicked (1Thes 5:2-3)
God’s tribulation upon the unbelieving, Beast worshipers, who will persecute the church and Israel in the great tribulation, is referenced in Rev 3:10. The persecuted saints are said to be kept from the hour of temptation, that is, removed from the sphere of God’s, day of the Lord, wrath.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
When considering this verse, it is very important to understand the focus of the trial in context. It is that which will allow you to rightly understand what the notable hour of temptation is.
Here, the focus is said to be upon the earth dwellers, “them that dwell upon the earth.” “The earth dwellers” is a technical term throughout the eschatological portions of the New Testament. The term is the combination of two Greek words (ghay and katoikeo). It always refers to those dwelling on the earth that worship the Beast and receive his mark (even in Rev 12:12).
Hallelujah
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
“The earth dwellers” is a technical term throughout the eschatological portions of the New Testament. The term is the combination of two Greek words (ghay and katoikeo). It always refers to those dwelling on the earth that worship the Beast and receive his mark (even in Rev 12:12). This can be understood to be true by observing this combination of words in the following texts.
Jesus says concerning the Day of the LORD:
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Note: Paul clearly teaches that the Day of the LORD will not overtake the watching believer as a thief.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
So “them that dwell on the face of the whole earth” excludes the watching saints.
John records concerning the two witnesses:
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. ...
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Note: The earth-dwellers here rejoice at the death of God’s two witnesses, which no believer would do.
Again, John uses this technical term concerning those who are deceived by the false prophet:
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Note: The earth-dwellers here are deceived by the False Prophet into worshiping the Beast and receiving his mark, but Jesus said that it was not possible for the “very elect” to be deceived (Matt. 24:24).
Eleven verses in the book of Revelation contain this technical term for those who worship the beast and receive his mark.
Recognizing that the focus of the temptation in Rev 3:10 is upon the earth dwellers, we know that it refers to God's fierce wrath at the beginning of the day of the Lord and not Satan's wrath (Rev 12:12) upon the elect and Israel in the great tribulation.
All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
What verses show that the great tribulation is the persecution of the elect and Israel?
The persecution of Israel can readily be seen in many passages. The most spoken of today is likely Jer. 30:7 where the term “Jacob’s trouble” appears. Dan 12:1 can also rightly be speaking of the believing remnant of Israel. Rev 12, decidedly shows us that Satan persecutes both the Israelites and believers in Jesus Christ when he is cast from Heaven to the earth in the middle of the week. Jesus’ instruction in the Olivet Discourse (Matt 24, 25) has a decidedly Jewish flavor which must include the Jews. However, we must remember it is only believers who listen to the Master’s voice. Also, it is incredulous to believe that Jesus' answer to the question "what shall be the sign of thy coming", has nothing to do with the church of whom the apostles, who received His answers, were part of its very foundation. In fact, that very same week, He told the same apostles "if I go away, I will come again and receive you unto myself", and I have yet to see a dispensationalist dare say: that promise is only for the Jews.
There are many references to Christians being persecuted in the great tribulation. Rev 6:9-11 describes those martyred souls under the alter in Heaven crying out for vengeance, that would have to wait, until the rest of their brethren and fellowservants should be killed as they were (it should be noted that there is no wrath of God yet poured out at the opening of the fifth seal). The innumerable multitude in Rev 7:9-17 are said to have come out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. They are saved by the blood of the Lamb just like we are. The saints are said to overcome the wrath of Satan “by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony and loved not their lives unto death” (Rev 12:11). Matt 24:9 tells us that the great persecution will be for Christ's name sake. Daniel records that deliverance is to be for those whose names are in the book (Dan 12:1). It is this same deliverance that Paul speaks of when he says that Christ will come the second time without sin unto salvation (Heb 9:28). Jesus said that those that endured to the end shall be saved, and the context was the great tribulation. Again and again, we see deliverance or salvation in a physical sense for those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (1Th 4:16-). On the other hand, those who will be beheaded, starved to death, or succumbe to the elements, having not worshiped the Beast nor having received his mark, are said to be overcomers.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
"Pastor Conley",
Who are you? Where do you Pastor? I wrote this in 2007, over ten years ago. It's a little late for an answer. This is not a place to promote a pre-wrath rapture position, which What Is Truth and I do not believe. I'll come along later, however, and answer your four comments. However, I would like to know who you are too.
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