To be sure of what I'm writing, I need to define pop/rock music. "Pop" means "popular," and maybe some good music is popular, so I said pop/rock to be clear. For sake of definition, I'm putting pop/rock as a bigger umbrella over all sorts of music with the rock beat, which includes rock, rap, heavy metal, grunge, adult contemporary, and country. Some may wonder why jazz, blues, bluegrass or such kind did not make this list. They could make the list, but I want to start for the sake of this post with the first list. Some music is worse than other. As a whole what I'm describing is the world's music. It has particular characteristics to it that accompany the spirit of the age.
I hear some pretty conservative evangelical Christian podcasts that use pop/rock for their theme, their ledes, or their transitions. It sounds incongruous to what they say or teach on their programs. This occurs more often than ever too. It's rare that anyone questions musical style anymore. It is a small percentage of professing Christianity now. I know that a lot of professing Christians who collect and habitually listen to pop/rock, even to the extent of being big fans of many different secular bands, singers, or players.
To reject forms or styles of music is to believe that kinds or types of music are immoral. They are ungodly. Listening to, singing, or playing them is wrong. For this post, I'm not giving an in depth answer on why a musical style can be sinful. The most basic reason is that music has meaning like language and it can communicate something sinful, just like language can. It really is worse than that.
Someone could use a foul word. That's wrong. However, the use of corrupt communication doesn't delude and ruin like pop/rock music does. I contend that bad music hurts people worse than false doctrine. I can hear someone asking, why doesn't the Bible warn us about it then? Scripture does warn about the essence of ungodly music, which is lust. Lust is the means by which someone is dragged into sin and music is the means, method, or instrumentation of it.
Scripture is filled with verses prohibiting and warning against lust. The lust of pop/rock is the problem. The lust of what the Bible speaks manifests itself in many various ways that require discernment to identify and then avoid. Through the years, I've seen dozens of professing Christians dragged away from God by their music. Their life becomes more and more profane and ungodly or unholy and they don't even know it. They can't see it. This is also fed or influenced by others who listen to the wrong music, and then both give approval to the other. It immerses them in the world to the extent that their lives become less about God and more about the world and themselves and then various and numerous sins. Always more and other types of sinning expand and multiply in their lives.
Among millennials today, the music results in rebellion against their parents. Anything that gets in the way of lust is a problem, which is why 2 Peter 2:10 talks about those walking after their own lust speaking evil of dignities. Authorities like churches, pastors, and parents regulate music to defeat lust, provoking the devotees to pop/rock. The music feeds lust and lust feeds the music. The two feed off each other in an insatiating manner, driving someone deeper and deeper into lust. Sin arises from lust (James 1:13-17).
First, 1 Peter 2:11 commands, "abstain from fleshly lusts." Listening to pop/rock in any of its forms disobeys this command in 1 Peter 2:11. Then it says that disobeying that command wars against your soul. Listening to pop/rock music wars against the soul, that is, it does great damage to your soul. That's not all.
Second, Romans 13:14 commands, "make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." Listening to pop/rock makes provision for the flesh, which is a nuance of difference from not abstaining from fleshly lust. God says "make not provision," and this professing Christian says to God, "No, I'm going to make provision anyway."
Third, Romans 12:2 commands, "be not conformed to this world." Pop/rock music conforms to this world, which is the spirit of the age, and conforms its listener to the world. Pop/rock is worldly. Then, by loving the pop/rock, this is how someone loves the world, violating another related and a fourth command in 1 John 2:15, "Love not the world." The listener to pop/rock loves the world. The same verse goes on to say that the love of the Father is not in him. You cannot love pop/rock music and love the Father. No man can serve two masters.
All of these commands are related, but slightly different, is a fifth command in 2 Timothy 2:22, "Flee also youthful lusts." Listening to pop/rock music is not fleeing youthful lusts, but following after youthful lusts. In John 8:44, Jesus said, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." Rather than obey God about lusts, this person follows after the devil, which is what someone does when he does those lusts.
A sixth command comes in Philippians 4:8:
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."Think on these things" is the command. In particular, think on "whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely . . . if there be any virtue." I'm not talking about words, but righteous, pure, lovely, and virtuous music. Thinking about pop/rock is disobeying the command to think on these things. When someone is not thinking about those things Paul commanded to think on, he is defying that command. Many more ramifications come from not thinking those things. This relates to Romans 12:2, which would be to disobey a seventh command: "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." This professing Christian listening to pop/rock isn't being transformed by listening, because his mind is not being renewed. Those two commands, think on these things, and in essence, renew your mind, are violated with listening to pop/rock.
What happens when these above commands are disobeyed? In Mark 4:19, Jesus describes it well, when He says, "And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful." Lust chokes the word. I've presented the Word of God many times to individuals deluged in and deluded by pop/rock, and they can't pull themselves away from their regular selfish activities. Christianity requires sacrifice, but they want their lust even more titillated by music than it already is.
Pop/rock violates much other scripture, but it disobeys these seven commands. This disobedience is sin in itself, but it is sin that will lead to further and greater sin. Literature attests that most women who fornicate, almost one hundred percent of them, have been affected by music that led to the fornication. It is no wonder so much fornication exists today.
Immodest dress and lust go together. I didn't see the halftime show of this year's (2020) Super Bowl, but I saw clips in news features. Skin tight and seductive garments on women go with the pop/rock music that is played. They move their body parts to that music in a sexual manner. I've seen this kind of evil progression occur many times in my life, including recently with someone I know. They begin secretly listening to pop/rock music, become rebellious, and shortly thereafter they flaunt their bodies in immodest clothing.
Obeying the seven commands means ceasing from the listening to pop/rock music. If you're listening to it or playing it, stop it now. As John commanded in 1 John 2:1, "Sin not."
And who do you think makes this music? Who do you think commissions this exact kind of music knowingly? They have to be doing it knowingly. Why are we being inundated by these concepts at "the big game," to name an example, and elsewhere? There is clearly a decades long campaign being run by certain people somewhere to make sure this gets into the ears of young people in this country. Who is selling this product? Of course, they will pay dearly for their crimes. However, maybe if we called out the source of this poison we might have a clearer and readier idea of why we should not listen to "the work of them that turn aside." But to do that, first you have to identify why they are turning aside. I honestly have no residual desires to hear or see the things now that I know where they are coming from, but I am rather repelled by them.
ReplyDeleteInstead of doing this however, we are told these are model citizens who are "benefitting" us. I have to assume it's for the love of money that it's done. Any thoughts on this, Pastor Brandenburg?
This is a major issue today. I believe social media is a big reason for the decay in Christian circles. On social media if you call out anything or say something is wrong you will get destroyed and be called legalistic etc. People promote their music and lifestyle and people slowly accept it and “like” it. It doesn’t matter what the Bible says to so many. To add to your verses and commands, a simple reading of Ephesians 5:1-18 has so many references to darkness vs light and fornication and uncleanliness. It say vs 3. “Let it not be once named among you, as become the saints”, in vs 7 “be not...partakes with them”, vs 8 “walk as children of light” in contrast to the darkness of the world and prior to salvation, and vs 11 “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather reprove them”.
ReplyDeleteIt comes down to the fact that people and their music is a surrender issue and many don’t want to do that.
Chris
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteThe world's music is part of the world system that will end, according to Revelation 18. The world has its own soundtrack, music that goes along with it. It is alluring and seductive and pulls people into the system and chains them into the system by giving a placebo to a vacuum that individuals have. They need God, but they choose lust, which is gives them a feeling to mask their dissatisfaction and pain. It's not the only form of this, but it is major. Christians go along with it, because they pander for the success of numbers. They don't want to show the difference to the world, because they want the acceptance. They want those who want lust and won't take Christianity without the lust, so they form a new kind of fake Christianity.
The churches offer lust in numbers of different ways, and then when the proponents get a feeling, they say it's the Holy Spirit, which is even more destructive. When you point it out, they attack you like the false teachers did Paul at Corinth, lying, using false doctrine to justify themselves. A big part of it is the new antinomianism, what I'm calling virtual sanctification, where Jesus already lived their righteous life, and they get his righteous in position, but practically they can live like they want. Grace covers for them. This is not the grace of God, so it corrupts the gospel too.
Chris,
ReplyDeleteEphesians 5 commands are true. I think I could have put together 25 commands, but I do like others participating, thinking of how the Bible applies to the pop/rock. We should fellowship in this and stand together, proclaiming the truth. Evangelicals are shoveling it and pumping it all over to great destruction. I agree it is a surrender issue. It brings ungodliness into the church, the worldly lust of Titus 2:11-13, rather than denying worldly lust, lapping it up, which doesn't represent the grace of God that appears to all men.
Pastor Brandenburg,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the article. I hear what you're saying. I do think that these days there is a plan to target the younger generation and get them as messed up spiritually as they themselves are, to get them to commit all kinds of transgressions, so that they will continue to make the same excuses for each other. But I will leave it there.
As far as churches offering lust, it's clear that these are imitations and it shouldn't matter what any of them say. Usually you'll see them engaged in all of the usual scripture nullification procedures. So it's clear there are deeper problems. As for antinomianism, it's a very good thing we have Philippians 1:6. Paul also said he was what he was by the grace of God, and there's no mistaking it. It wouldn't be that we are to try the spirits as in 1 John 4:1 nor to know those by their works as in Matthew 7:20, nor that we would be told let the same (Philippians 2:13) works shine forth as in Matthew 5:16. But it's not about us, and we have none occasion of boasting. Why? Because it is "excluded by the law of faith." Romans 4:2, 1 Corinthians 4:1-4.
Anyway, when someone tells me they "can live like they want" the question arises as to what that even is. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matthew 6:21. Also 1 John 2:19. There's a difference between saying that grace covers for you and it actually being true. At some point, that difference will become manifest, but I can't make a neat, bullet point description of how that always manifests. I can give you plenty of individual cases.
Christians need to know the type of content in this article when it comes to judging the application of scripture. Believers are too afraid to apply the Bible today. Lust means nothing. Almost nothing means anything, when it obviously does.
ReplyDeletehttps://religiousaffections.org/articles/articles-on-aesthetics/taste-formed-and-deformed-by-culture/
Pastor Bradenburg,
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly with everything that was said in this article. I personally see a lot of this attitude of people saying that they don’t want a church that allows the type of worldly music you talked about, but who then give themselves free liberty to listen to whatever they want to in their personal lives. Is that not hypocrisy? Where in the Bible does God divide the Christian life into your church life, and then your personal life?
I am the guy who got into a back and forth with you over your article on February 17, 2018 titled “For the rest of this season, I’m giving up NBA basketball.” One of the main issues that we discussed (which we don’t have to get into again) was your view that professional sports viewing is a personal liberty issue, when I argued that it can’t be if everything associated with it (the gambling, promotion of alcohol, nakedness of the cheerleaders, desecration of the Lord’s Day, and Rock music) are certainly not personal liberty issues.
In light of everything that you mentioned about Rock music in the professing Christian’s life, I noticed that you alluded to the Super Bowl, and the Rock music and sensuality that dominated the half time show. Here is my question: How can we as professing Christians really be against Rock music in every sphere of our life (whether in the house of God or in our own personal lives) if we then give ourselves liberty to watch and endorse entertainment like professional sports that glorifies and promotes Rock and roll? I ask this not to get into another long discussion about professional sports (as we obviously see that differently, and it is not the focus of your article), but rather to address the fact that when God commands us to “be not conformed to the world,” and to ‘love not the world,” there is really nothing there that allows us to pick and choose what things of the world we will and will not be conformed to, and what things of the world we will and will not love. I am not suggesting that you promote that mindset, but multitudes of professing Christians do, even in Independent Baptist churches. And even though God says that we are to be “unspotted from the world” (James 1:27), the moment any preacher really hits on that with any kind of conviction and authority, the worldly professing Christians come forth and make foolish remarks about trying to be Amish, or a legalist, or robbing them of their personal liberty in Christ to embrace worldliness.
Jason
Jason,
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between watching a sporting event -- jr. high, high school, college, or professional -- and listening to ungodly music. A sport is neutral. Music is not. When someone will not differentiate between those two, he is going to fail in attempting to persuade, because it is adding to scripture. Adding to scripture is also a problem.
Regarding church versus personal, some personal isn't wrong. It's just not sacred. If I listen to John Philips Sousa, march music, or even Dvorak symphony. It's not wrong, but that doesn't mean you use it for church. Worship is more sanctified than other music. I can America The Beautiful, but that isn't worship. I can sing Home on the Range and that isn't worship.
We don't help our arguments when we are more strict that scripture. The music issue is NOT a liberty issue. Watching a sport IS one. That doesn't mean we should watch certain sports, because there is something better to do.
I don't want to turn this into a big argument, because I think you should just support what I've written. And I don't want to argue with you, so I'm not going to.
Thanks for that article Kent. The way I read and understand Scripture is taking your article a step further and calling out those professing Christians who listen to this music as not true believers but rather mere professors. Listening and enjoying ungodly pop/rock music is a major symptom of someone that carries the dreaded sinnersvirus. Here is some reasons for this Biblical diagnosis.
ReplyDelete1. It reveals that they love the world, and such are unsaved. They have not the love of the Father in them, but live after the lusts of their eyes and flesh (1 Jn. 2:15-17). The regenerated overcame the world at salvation (1 Jn. 5:3-4; Jn. 15:18-19; 17:14-16).
2. It reveals they are friends with the world, and such are the enemies of God (Jam. 4:4); the very antonym of a friend of God (Jn. 15:13-15).
3. It reveals they are carnally minded, not spiritual, which is the mind of the lost, the false professor who is yet in the flesh (Rom. 8:1-16). The truly saved is spiritually minded, was once in the flesh (Rom. 7:4-6) but is now of the Spirit.
4. It reveals one who yet retains the “spirit of the world” and not “the spirit which is of God” (1 Cor. 2:12), and never “escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Pet. 1:4).
5. It is corrupt fruit which doesn't come from a good tree (Matt. 7:15-20; 12:33-35). "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." (Matt. 12:33).
6. It reveals they serve a master, who isn't God; but it's at salvation we exchange masters (Matt. 6:24).
7. It reveals one who is yet a servant of sin and not of righteousness and holiness. "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom. 6:20-22).
8. It reveals misplaced affections. Those that are truly born again hate the things God hates and love the things God loves (Ps. 119:128; Heb. 1:9; Rom. 12:9).
9. It reveals a very serious and foundational heart issue, as the points above succinctly point out. "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:" (Pr. 23:7a). This sort of music is not bred in the heart of one that is genuinely saved. Its revolting to such, as it purely feeds the flesh and emotions and is everything ungodly. This music turns the grace of God into lasciviousness, which is the mark of ungodly false teachers who creep in unawares (Ju. 1:4).
More points could be added and these further expounded.
Reuben
Reuben,
ReplyDeleteI dare say you are very unbalanced in your approach. While I understand what you are trying to say, you are forgetting the balancing truth. I think Kent would agree there are many Christians that are truly saved but use fleshly pop music. For example, John MacArthur’s church allows music that I would call fleshly, worldly music. John Piper preached at Passion Conference that has very awful music including Christian Rap. Is anyone willing to say that John Piper isn’t saved? How about Paul Washer? Now I would question many at the Passion Conference and probably others at MacArthurs church but just because they listen to fleshly music doesn’t mean they are unsaved any more than a Christian who is proud or is struggling with loving his wife is unsaved. Both pride and fleshly music should not be characteristics of a Christian. What do you say about Lot? If Lot was around today you would assume he isn’t saved but he was. You can’t just assume everyone is unsaved because they do something that is wrong. Maybe they are babes in Christ. Maybe they are not taught? Kanye West claimed he got saved and said he needed to give up all his music because it was of the devil and then a “Pastor” said you don’t have to give it up you just need to use it for the Lord and so Kanye kept his music. I don’t know that he is saved but you could see how a young Christian could be taught that.
You use James 4:4 in your second point. James is clearly written to believers. Over and over he says “my brethren”. James 4 is a Christian that is unspiritual and needs to repent and draw nigh to God.
Regards,
Chris
If I don't comment on every comment so far, it's not because I agree or disagree, but sometimes I like the idea of just watching men debate it in the comment section, instead of me, so be my guest.
ReplyDeletePastor Bradenburg, {Part 1}
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I completely agree with the second paragraph of your reply to me, that there is personal music that is acceptable, along the vein of what you alluded to. Perhaps I could have been clearer in what I wrote, but I wasn’t in any way implying that Christians can only listen to the same music in their personal life that they hear in the house of God (talking about sacred music). I was talking about professing Christians who go to a church that only uses sacred, Christ honoring music, but then have no problem listening to the world’s music (Rock and Roll) in their personal lives. That is the hypocrisy that I alluded to (living one way inside the house of God and another outside), and it is far more prevalent than I think most would want to acknowledge.
In regards to the other points that I made and your replies:
1) Your reply to what I said about sports suggests that you for some reason don’t understand my position, and are therefore misrepresenting my views. I clearly said “Professional sports,” in my comments. I am not against sports as far as athletics are concerned, as I have played them my whole life, and still do at age forty-five. So I agree in that sense that a sport can be neutral (although that is getting harder and harder to justify in regards to the spirit in which many play sports.) I also don’t think that you can lump Jr. High, High school, and collegiate sports together with professional sports to the same degree relating to the sins that accompany these events. I haven’t seen men and women getting drunk before they go to watch Jr. High and High school sports like they do before and during the watching of professional sports. Nor do they gamble on such games and so forth.
2) In light of all of the sin that is clearly involved with professional sports today, I am having a hard time understanding your blanket statement that “A sport is neutral. Music is not,” unless you are talking about just playing a sport, or watching one that is not professional, which again has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Perhaps you might want to explain what you meant by saying that.
Sincerely,
Jason
{Part 2}
ReplyDelete3) You also seem to be implying in the first paragraph of your reply to me that I am adding to scripture in with my position, which is a pretty serious charge in light of (Revelation 22:18). How am I adding to scripture?
4) I find it interesting in your responses to what I have mentioned regarding professional sports that you never say anything about not watching it because of the immorality connected with it, but you seem to be implying in the third paragraph of your reply that the only time that one should consider not watching is if they can find something better to do. Really?
5) Finally, you conclude the last paragraph of your reply by saying abruptly that you don’t want to get into a big argument with me, when I very clearly told you that was not my intention at all. Your tone throughout your reply suggests that you were aggravated that I even brought up professional sports, when it was you who brought it up to begin with in your article. You said that I should just support what you have written. What does that mean, that I should have just said great article and that’s it? Later on in a general reply to all you actually encouraged debate in the comment section, and said that you liked to see others give their opinions. Why could not my reply to your article be seen as a healthy debate on two things (Rock music and sports) that are definitely correlated?
*You don’t have to reply to this if you don’t want to Pastor Bradenburg. Perhaps some others who read this might want to interact with what we have both said here. Regardless if you or any other men reading this equate the professional sports issue as a liberty issue or one of idolatry, I think we would all have to admit that this is a serious issue in Independent Baptist churches that is not going away anytime soon, and the connection between Rock music and professional sports cannot be ignored
Sincerely,
Jason
Chris, (part 1 of 3)
ReplyDelete1. Firstly, the balance is in the truth, not in pragmatism. I stand behind my comments and refute the error that true Christians can and will listen to ungodly and worldly pop music. They won’t. Pseudo Christians maybe, but not true ones. That is the balanced approach, for it’s the approach of God the Son and the apostles and the prophets of old.
What you wrote appears to be pragmatism and approaching Gods Word from an experiential and man-centred basis. Sincerity is not a basis for righteous judgment. Jesus said, yea commanded, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (Jn. 7:24). One judges righteously when one judges according to Scripture. Epistles like James and 1 John reveal whether someone is truly saved, and there we find a love of the world is an indicator for an unregenerate nature (1 Jn. 2:15-17). Loving this music is most certainly a love for the world.
2. Secondly, because we cannot see man’s heart, we judge by their fruit (Matt. 7:15-20). “He that is spiritual judgeth all things” (1 Cor. 2:15). Based upon fruit and the evidence of salvation as abundantly revealed in Scripture, yes I would be willing to say that John Piper is unsaved, and for a lot more reasons than just his love for ungodly worldly rap and rock music. For example, he believes Roman Catholic Mother Theresa is an example of true Christian sanctification; he loves Charismatic/Pentecostal heresy (even taking his people to the Toronto-Blessing); he loves modern “Bible” perversions; he was educated by the neo-evangelical and heretical institution’s of Wheaton & Fuller Seminary, and continues to heap praise on his ex-teachers who are extremely heretical (which means he agrees with them — Am. 3:3); he positively quotes and recommends other apostates such as Rick Warren, C.S. Lewis frequently (and is an unabashed Lewis disciple) and also Augustine and the Roman Catholic G.K. Chesterton, etc (see Am. 3:3 again); he is a proponent of psychoheresy and contemplative mysticism, among many other errors; the central principle of his theology is the ungodly “Christian Hedonism; he presumptuously and eisegetically wrests God’s Word and manipulates, misuses and abuses Scripture to fit his doctrine and theology; he is a neo-reformed Calvinist which comes with a lot of error and heresy; he embraces and propagate a false gospel which includes his Calvinistic “you must be born again before you believe” heresy and embracing of the heretical TULIP false “gospel (he writes, “The doctrines of grace [Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints] are the warp and woof of the biblical gospel cherished by so many saints for centuries.” — TULIP: The Pursuit of God’s Glory in Salvation, 2000, back cover); and the list goes on and on. Piper is also the pastor of the heavily compromised and wishy washy Bethlehem Baptist Church, which entertains its share of heresy and worldliness (incl. contemporary rock worship of the flesh), even paedobaptism. I have no issue at all in calling out men like Piper as wolves in sheep’s clothing (because that is exactly what Scripture teaches and discernment that true believers ought to have), that should be marked and avoided (Rom. 16:17-18), NOT embraced! It is “by good words and fair speeches” that men like Piper “deceive the hearts of the simple [the false professing lost].”
(part 2 of 3)
ReplyDelete3. Thirdly, Pop/Rock music is no small matter and is not a struggle of a mature true born again believer with any time and thus maturity on his belt. Sure a new believer might briefly struggle with it, but that’s where it ends. Worldly music is ungodly and evil and it comes from a love that is foreign to one that loves God and His Word. It’s not just a brief sin that is regretted and confessed but one that envelopes the professor and comes from his nature which is the flesh. The men you mentioned have been professing believes for a long time, yet they embrace the ungodly and worldly evil. Right. No, that’s not how God’s Word reads at all. I loved this music and a lot of other ungodly music before I was saved but within 12 hrs of my conversion God the Spirit Who indwells me convicted me that that music was wicked and of the devil so I threw it all in the garbage, roughly 10,000 CD’s. He didn’t deal with me in any way different than how He would with other truly regenerated believers. A born again Christian has a new song in his mouth given by God (Ps. 40:3). The Great Shepherd “leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.” (Ps. 23:3b). He doesn’t lead His sheep in the paths of unrighteousness and ungodliness. The same “grace of God that bringeth salvation” (Ti. 2:11), also teaches, leads, and guides the saint to “deny ungodliness and worldly lusts,” and to “live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” to “redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Ti. 2:12-14). Pop/rock (including Contemporary Praise and Worship Music) is unrighteous, ungodly, iniquity and the opposite of being purified. Kanye West is a false believer, one described in Ju. 1:4, and was he truly saved, the Spirit of God would reign supreme in his life, “because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.” (1 Jn. 4:4). The context (even same passage) is that the antichrists are overcome at salvation, just like 1 Jn. 2:13-14 is telling us. Those that love this music have not “overcome the wicked one.”
4. Fourthly, using Lot is a red herring. Lot didn’t love ungodly music. “(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)” (2 Pet. 2:8). In fact, there is not even one example in Scripture of any true believer loving the world and its music. Quite the opposite. Jesus prayed concerning the truly saved, “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” (Jn 17:14-16). That runs in complete opposition to your philosophy.
5. Fifthly, to briefly reiterate, those that love the world do not have the love of the Father in them and do not do the will of God (1 Jn. 2:15-17; cf. Matt. 7:21; Jn. 5:42). Those that love the world are overcome by the world, while the saved overcome the world at salvation (1 Jn. 5:4-5). Those who love the world are of the world and are not hated by the world, while the world on the other hand hates the born again Christian (Jn. 15:18-19; 17:14-16; 1 Jn. 3:13) and know us not (1 Jn. 3:3). Those who love the world have the spirit of the world and not the Spirit which is of God (1 Cor. 2:12). Those who love the world have not “escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Pet. 1:3-4). The love and friendship of the world is characterized by Gods Word as something saved people did before salvation, and are permanently delivered from at salvation (Eph. 2:1-10). Those who love the world are the enemies of God (Jam. 4:4).
Loving pop/rock music is loving the world.
(part 3 of 3)
ReplyDelete6. And lastly, that brings me to Jam. 4:4. This passage is not clearly written to believers. Thats eisegetical interpretation to fit your egregious philosophy about an alleged believer supposedly loving the world and ungodly music. Can you show me one passage in Scripture anywhere that a true believer/saint is called an enemy of God? Try as I might, I cannot find even one place in Scripture where a born again believer is ever referred to as an enemy of God or even one believer towards another but I have found plenty where the lost are referred to as such (cf. Nah. 1:2; Matt. 5:43-45; 13:25-30, 38-43; 22:44; Pr. 27:6; Lk. 1:71; Ac. 13:10; Rom. 11:28; 12:20; I Cor. 15:25; Phil. 3:18; Col. 1:21; Heb. 10:13; Rev. 11:12; etc). Of the 380 times it is found in Scripture, not one even remotely hints at a saved person ever having this label. False teachers/prophets/believers are referred to as an "enemy of all righteousness" (Ac. 13:10). We see the contrast being made in 2 Th. 3, between the “enemy” (lost) and the “brother” (professing to be saved). If the brother is to be separated from because he is walking disobediently, he is not to be counted as one would count an enemy (a lost person, a heathen) but admonished as a saved person (and only if he eventually rejects the reproof of the church, is he to be counted as a lost person, a heathen, thus an enemy—Matt. 18:17). If he is not our enemy (at this point), then he wouldn't be God’s enemy either. The world-lovers in Jam. 4:4 are the enemies of God. So are the lost Christ-rejecting Jews, "concerning the gospel, . . . are enemies for your sakes:" (Rom. 11:28). Lost people are God’s enemy because they reject the Lordship of Christ over them (cf. Lk. 19:14, 27). Here Jesus says that His "enemies" which hate His authority ("would not that I should reign over them"), are commanded to be brought "hither, and slay them before me." Col. 1:21 makes it also clear that only the lost are enemies of God: "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled".
Just because James called them “my brethren” does not mean they were saved people. He was writing “to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad,” (1:1) which are obviously the Jews, and all Jews are brethren according to the flesh (Rom. 9:1-5; Ac. 3:25). Furthermore, on a number of occasions James clearly states that some of his Jewish readers (“my brethren”) are not converted (Jam. 1:21; 2:14, 18-19; 3:12, 14-16; 4:1-12; 5:1-6, 19-20).
Reuben
Reuben,
ReplyDeleteI don’t have time to reply in detail. I assume you are retired? Some day I will be there:)
Just a quick note about Lot. I agree Scripture doesn’t say he loved the wicked music of Sodom, but would you agree that he loved the world? He seemed pretty tied to Sodom. Does it sound like a Christian to offer your two virgin daughters to the men of the city? Sounds more egregious than worldly music.
Regarding James 4. Verse 3 talks about not getting your prayers answered. Unsaved can’t get their prayers answered but saved people can get them answered, but they weren’t getting them answered because they weren’t asking or they were asking amiss. Also, in verse 4 he calls them adulterers and adultresses. In order to be an adulterer you have to be married. These people were married to Christ and were adulterating with the world. They were in a relationship with Christ but were also seeking to have a relationship with the world. This agrees with the whole of Scripture. To say that a Christian can’t ever loose his love for God and have a greater love for the world is unbiblical. Look at the churches in Revelations. Look at 2 Peter 2 (I noticed you didn’t touch that passage). Look at 1 Corinthians. (Carnality was rampant and they were clearly saved). For crying out loud look at King David. He didn’t repent until he was found out. You would almost call that a suspect apology although we know it was sincere.
Vs.5 and following deal with things that certainly are not for unbelievers. Resisting the devil? Submitting to God? Draw nigh to God? Double minded? This is clearly a saved person who has the inner conflict between the flesh and the Spirit and James is saying this is how you win and move forward in your walk.
So the context of verse 4 is all about believers. Therefore the enmity with God idea has to fit with the context. When a believer is yielding to the flesh or sin then sin is in charge or the master, right? The flesh even if it is saved flesh still produces death and looks just as bad as unsaved flesh. When the flesh is in control it does hinder the work of God. God is not glorified because it actually hinders the cause of Christ and so is enmity against God. In contrast the fruit of the Spirit is in harmony with Hod because it is produce of God.
All that to say there is a balance. Wish I had time to say more but I feel I have made my point.
Chris
Isn't it interesting how these supposed "model citizens" who are making all this music are held up as icons to be blessed in order that God may bless us? Maybe if people would stop mis-applying Genesis 12:1-3, there would be far less of this.
ReplyDeleteCitation: 2nd Chronicles 19:2, Proverbs 24:24-25, 1st John 2:22-23, 2nd John v.11.