tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post635450694687913299..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: Recent James White Videos and the Bible Version Issue, pt. 3Kent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-12743190138999069312015-07-23T20:44:25.333-07:002015-07-23T20:44:25.333-07:00Hi Robert,
Of course our speech should be with gr...Hi Robert,<br /><br />Of course our speech should be with grace, seasoned with salt, but that would be rather ambiguous if we didn't have the example of it in the NT. When we see how Jesus and Paul speak, that is scripture -- it must be with grace. It is charis, the same word that is the resource for our salvation, but that same resource bring harsh conviction of sin, a deadly strike at our conscience. It's not all so cheery. Generally, we should love the person and want him to change, but there reaches a point where he acts like a wolf, and he is a danger. That's where White is IMO. I'd be glad to see him change and glad to have a happy, kind exchange, but I think you've got to meet the rhetoric to a certain degree.<br /><br />Be completely honest here. Do you think James White is gracious in his approach, that he was in his video?Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-72190441433093728222015-07-23T18:07:12.343-07:002015-07-23T18:07:12.343-07:00Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with...Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. —Colossians 4:6<br /><br />I find a gracious response to a rant is far better received and instructive to all concerned. If I had lowered the boom on Dr. White, I would have only truly spoken to those who already agree with me. I don’t see answering a matter with grace as backing down. To the contrary, a gracious answer tends to be the one that finds it’s way into the hearts and minds of God’s people. Burgon, despite his positive contributions, set a horrid example for us as to how to speak to this issue. <br /><br />In Burgon’s defense, the work of Westcott and Hort was far more offensive in his day as they were rescinding the Greek text based upon manuscripts that appeared to be corrupted flukes. The subsequent papyri discoveries have proven that Aleph and B are not flukes, but an early, regional text of Upper Egypt.<br /><br />It is for this reason that I am not so radically offended by the present Critical Text which continues to lean so heavily upon the Alexandrian textual tradition. Despite it’s flaws, it is the text of the people of God in that region from at least the 2nd century and remains orthodox in it’s readings overall (despite its glaring faults). I figure if I can claim Athanasius of Alexandria, I can be gracious with those who use the text he no doubt used.<br /><br />Having said that, this doesn’t mean this is a trivial matter. Let not grace be seen to belittle what is at stake here. It is not the Critical Text as it now is that is the weightiest problem; rather, it is the presuppositions and subsequent methodology behind it. The reasoned eclectic approach to textual criticism will never arrive at the “original autographs” as there is no way whatsoever to recover such a thing upon purely rationalistic grounds. The vast majority of the scholars in the field are agreed upon this point.<br /><br />Failing to achieve this goal, it is shifting sand and I believe the next 100 years will lead to a complete polarization of the matter. I suspect Bible believing Christians will have a very difficult time maintaining the reasoned eclectic position. Not that most Christians will understand the principles involved in this highly technical subject, but it’s product will become increasingly offensive. I speak to future translations and future updates of the ones that manage to stay around (indeed, are they not all in flux as well?).<br /><br />As things continue to head in this direction, more and more people will be looking for answers that are compatible with their faith. I think it is time we who hold to the Traditional Text be the most gracious, and kind in our dealings. Far more people will listen if we answer with grace, letting our words be seasoned with salt, and be more zealous for the hearts of our brethren than thumping our own chests. <br /><br />This is at least how I see it.<br /><br />Robert Truelove<br />Pastor<br />Christ Reformed Church<br /><a href="http://www.christreformedchurch.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.christreformedchurch.org</a><br /><br />P.S. As to the question of the Muslim apologetic, there was really too much else on the table to get into that too deeply. While I do agree with Dr. White that the entirety of the Greek manuscript history does indeed demonstrate that the text was not corrupted as Muslims believe, one can demonstrate that without being a reasoned eclectic. It is the reasoned eclectic approach that I believe undermines the apologetic (not the Alexandrian manuscripts).Robert Truelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03673668504955360119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-14353718666258291822015-07-23T11:33:03.692-07:002015-07-23T11:33:03.692-07:00Robert,
One more thing. I wrote this whole serie...Robert,<br /><br />One more thing. I wrote this whole series without watching your video. It is interesting to see how we overlap. We've never met. It makes it more interesting, more powerful. We do say similar things. I have a stronger view than you, I think, and I'm not sure why. I think people do have to settle, and the use of these other versions is divisive. If someone is reading ESV, sure, I can be more happy than a Bible rejecter, but I think you give it too much credibility. Maybe I'm wrong.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-51952392189932734242015-07-23T11:23:57.295-07:002015-07-23T11:23:57.295-07:00Robert,
I can appreciate that you want to take a ...Robert,<br /><br />I can appreciate that you want to take a very measured tone. This is a more important issue than that, and your underplaying it with him, I believe is a mistake. You should match is rhetoric. There is a scriptural basis for doing that -- it's what Jesus and Paul did. It's taught in Proverbs. What's at stake? The supernatural nature of the Bible, a perfect Bible, a Bible that would come from God. There is a lot more than that, but you are making it sound like an OK option. Maybe this is because of your ecclesiology and your view of unity -- I don't know. I'm happy that you are not with White on this, but you shouldn't back down.<br /><br />Also, overall White is a significant negative to ministry to Muslims. This is not a biblical apologetic. It isn't even reformed or Calvinistic, which should drive you folks crazy. They aren't going to be changed by winning the tit for tat with manuscript evidence. That does play into their hands, and you backed down on that. Why?<br /><br />By the way, this isn't personal with White. I don't like his style for many reasons, and don't like how he's treating you, but if he was right, I'd be his biggest cheerleader.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-45653847199460891682015-07-22T19:38:57.157-07:002015-07-22T19:38:57.157-07:00My response...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU...My response...<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUl0vNcDB9A<br /><br />Robert Truelove<br />Pastor<br />Christ Reformed Church<br />http://www.christreformedchurch.orgRobert Truelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03673668504955360119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-75422446015380516502015-07-22T19:37:43.923-07:002015-07-22T19:37:43.923-07:00My response...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU...My response...<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUl0vNcDB9A<br /><br />Robert Truelove<br />Pastor<br />Christ Reformed Church<br />http://www.christreformedchurch.orgRobert Truelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03673668504955360119noreply@blogger.com