tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post5910365804229923522..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: An Honest Basic Assessment of Independent Baptists, pt. 1Kent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-23416277175876508532015-04-29T07:22:30.771-07:002015-04-29T07:22:30.771-07:00"It is tied to a wrong doctrine of salvation ..."It is tied to a wrong doctrine of salvation and sanctification and then the methodology that accompanies those."<br /><br />That is why we are in a mess. As I have written, the churches need to work together and agree on biblical doctrines, sound doctrines that are passed on generation to generation by the proper understanding and wisdom as revealed in the scriptures. <br /><br />These can be known as "articles of faith" under which all can agree to abide for the purpose of representing Jesus Christ as a holy bride so that the gospel of Jesus Christ can have ONE voice, the Spirit bearing witness through the body of Christ according to all that is written in the scriptures.The Preacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555338497068482867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-79467344408183383012015-04-28T14:37:05.080-07:002015-04-28T14:37:05.080-07:00Farmer Brown,
Revivalism produces results using m...Farmer Brown,<br /><br />Revivalism produces results using means. The so-called "revival meeting" can be one, and event like that with a certain style of music and communication that causes emotionalism, but some do this about every week, said to be fueled by the power of God.<br /><br />It is tied to a wrong doctrine of salvation and sanctification and then the methodology that accompanies those.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-19492624208188039222015-04-28T10:49:33.194-07:002015-04-28T10:49:33.194-07:00"We certainly specialize in division sometime..."We certainly specialize in division sometimes, don't we?"<br /><br />Yep. Baptist specilize in dividing the body of Christ-- I am of Paul, I am of Apollos has no place in the body of Christ. The story of Israel is found as a great example in the book of Judges-- every man [pastor] did that which is right in their own [independent church] eyes.<br /><br />The NT church as orgainized by the Holy Ghost had all churches working together.The Preacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555338497068482867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-36920358389110155612015-04-27T22:28:24.959-07:002015-04-27T22:28:24.959-07:00I would like to point out that there is nothing in...I would like to point out that there is nothing inconsistent with unaffiliated Baptists affiliating together. The "unaffiliated" means that they are not part of an organized convention, association, etc. not that they never work together.KJB1611https://www.blogger.com/profile/09696273086955004524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47867700551210825442015-04-27T21:39:36.295-07:002015-04-27T21:39:36.295-07:00Hi Kent
Overall, I'd say this is a fairly acc...Hi Kent<br /><br />Overall, I'd say this is a fairly accurate breakdown of the scene. I'm sure I'll find something to argue with as you go along, though!<br /><br />As for the independent/autonomous point, I think that churches can be in a group and maintain autonomy if they retain title and full control of of their property and if getting out is at least as easy as getting in. One way "Fellowships" exercise control is when they start making loans to churches (for building programs usually) and suddenly you are beholden to them and can have your loan called on you if you aren't careful.<br /><br />I've never seen the need for the local church to join a fellowship, however. As you know, I do see value in the personal fellowship of the FBFI.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-25965622856650713092015-04-27T20:38:17.899-07:002015-04-27T20:38:17.899-07:00Not trying to be obtuse, I have never heard that t...Not trying to be obtuse, I have never heard that term or grouping. Are these churches that have "revival meetings"? Is there something more than that?<br /><br />I might sound naive, but I did not grow up in a church that did that. I attended one that did for a couple years when first married, but it was never explained. <br /><br />I thought it strange that the pastor would have someone in once or twice a year to revive the church. Prior to the speaker coming be would preach a couple messages about had badly our church needed revival. I always wondered how we had fallen so far since the last revival, and what he was getting paid to do if we were always in a downward spiral.Farmer Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09637851494862726991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-77019543095927728222015-04-27T19:33:25.611-07:002015-04-27T19:33:25.611-07:00Hi Farmer,
I actually like Merriam Webster online...Hi Farmer,<br /><br />I actually like Merriam Webster online for revivalism: "the spirit or methods characteristic of religious revivals"<br /><br />These are people who employ measures to produce "revival." There is a history of it.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-14709486815900378842015-04-27T18:46:07.826-07:002015-04-27T18:46:07.826-07:00Would you mind defining revivalist?Would you mind defining revivalist?Farmer Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09637851494862726991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-56656829282571711332015-04-27T13:02:36.591-07:002015-04-27T13:02:36.591-07:00Michael,
For true unity to occur, we have to have...Michael,<br /><br />For true unity to occur, we have to have division. Think about the word, community. Commune and unity. What causes unity? Sameness. You can't commune without sameness. What is the basis for sameness? The Bible. Can we accept unbiblical teaching or practice in our community and still be unified?Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-53170613024389507282015-04-27T13:00:16.377-07:002015-04-27T13:00:16.377-07:00Terry,
Autonomy of the church. It seems all Bapt...Terry,<br /><br />Autonomy of the church. It seems all Baptists claim that. However, are they autonomous in a Convention? At least, scripturally autonomous. Boards provide outside oversight.<br /><br />When I talk about these labels, it is to think about it. What do we mean? The labels themselves though, true, don't matter so much.<br /><br />I think there is more to being BJ versus revivalist. When I start thinking about it, it seems like a whole book, but I'm going to keep it to blogposts. I do think about music and preaching style as distinct between the two though. You probably know there is more to it than that.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-44855890152302522212015-04-27T12:56:35.958-07:002015-04-27T12:56:35.958-07:00Jeff,
I'm saying the boards belie claimed ind...Jeff,<br /><br />I'm saying the boards belie claimed independence. I believe in independence though.<br /><br />The unaffiliateds, I've noticed, supporting non-unaffiliateds, but some won't support, for instance, someone who practices close communion. On the other hand, they'll take support from those who practice close, not closed, communion -- taking the money fine, giving the money, not fine. This needs to be explored. You are right. I'm just getting started.<br /><br />I think we lay out fellowship, unity, and separation in our book, A Pure Church. People should get it. It's not just about separation, but about unity. We have huge segments about fellowship and unity, laying them out scripturally. Have you read that book yet? (not getting on your case)Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-25642662506756779302015-04-27T07:19:34.657-07:002015-04-27T07:19:34.657-07:00Even though I agree with the 'family tree'...Even though I agree with the 'family tree' you are laying out, it makes my head hurt to try to keep track of it all. We certainly specialize in division sometimes, don't we?Michael S. Alfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01662467336357195633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-70603299215155751752015-04-27T07:01:46.995-07:002015-04-27T07:01:46.995-07:00Independent vs Autonomy.
Independent Baptist'...Independent vs Autonomy.<br /><br />Independent Baptist's (imho) really mean autonomy when they say independent. Meaning independent of outside control or oversight.<br /><br />Independent vs Unaffiliated.<br /><br />It doesn't matter what one calls himself, because it is our critics who name us. ie - baptists are called baptists because of our enemies... <br /><br />Bob Jones or Revivalist<br /><br />Bob Jones: formal music and calmer preaching?<br /><br />Revivalist: country and western style emotionalism and wild man preaching?Terry Basham, IIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354045499775379475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-62817814919938121782015-04-27T06:54:01.551-07:002015-04-27T06:54:01.551-07:00It appears that most of this is laying a groundwor...It appears that most of this is laying a groundwork for later post(s). I am interested in reading your development of the mission board involvement. It does seem to be one of the "stand out" distinguishing marks.<br /><br />One other thing strikes my humor...It seems like Unaffiliated Baptists will only associate or cooperate financially with other Unaffiliated Baptists. Does that mean they are Affiliated by their commitment to Unaffiliatedness?<br /><br />I hope you know I'm not trying to be snarky. But it is a God-given characteristic to want fellowship with other people. -- Good Christians/churches will set up some boundaries to protect themselves from error....and whalaaah! We have another denomination/convention/association/fellowship/conference/affiliation.... even now an Unaffiliation.<br /><br />I would love to hear your thoughts on this basic reality of human interaction.Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13038716402776736733noreply@blogger.com