tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post3907862552692074989..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: 30, 60, 100: Can We Conclude That More Fruit Was Caused by the One Receiving the Seed?Kent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-30524723538247066372022-08-16T21:57:13.564-07:002022-08-16T21:57:13.564-07:00I saw another teaching that suggests this is "...I saw another teaching that suggests this is "fruit of the spirit", and not to numbers of peopleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-28826835423421524682019-01-19T02:21:20.751-08:002019-01-19T02:21:20.751-08:00I agreed with you my precious friend.
Pastor Aaz...I agreed with you my precious friend. <br /><br />Pastor Aazam Waris <br />aazamw@yahoo.com Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15217848253419220512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-5471910654093818532018-10-23T00:39:47.409-07:002018-10-23T00:39:47.409-07:00God bless and peace be with you.
The answer to th...God bless and peace be with you. <br />The answer to this parable, 30, 60, 100 fold is found in Luke 8:11-15. God be with you. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05062415579516929069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-21818102154032397632017-11-20T20:48:26.179-08:002017-11-20T20:48:26.179-08:00Water and Blood,
I had a hard time following your...Water and Blood,<br /><br />I had a hard time following your comment. I read it once. Maybe I'll sort through it later.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-40643282176141632772017-11-20T20:30:49.264-08:002017-11-20T20:30:49.264-08:00Christ was always speaking on more than one level ...Christ was always speaking on more than one level appealing to different audiences according to what they could grasp. He never spoke without a parable and never said a word unless it came from the Father. This is a parable alluding to the 3 harvests, or resurrections: barley, wheat and grapes. There are 3 different groups represented in God's people as typified in the temple structure: the Holy of Holies (Most holy place), the Holy Place (inner sanctum where the priesthood enters to minister to God) and the outer court (where sacrifices are made and people "rub shoulders" with the world). Yes, the temple points to Christ but also to God's plan of the ages through Him. Remember, Christ said that many will come to Him saying, "Lord! Lord! Did we not..." But He will tell them to depart from Him, that He never KNEW them. Ezekiel prophesied that those who act according to their idols will serve in the house of the Lord but they will not have access to His most holy things (the 60%ers?). The priesthood who is faithful (the 100%ers?) will minister to God and have access to His most holy things. There are many, many types and parables in the Bible that point to this. Our inheritances are not all the same even though we are equally God's children (children or sons and daughters of inheritance?). It is how we use the talents that were given to us (how we sow according to the leading of His Spirit that dwells IN us - that is knowing Him). To the lazy one his talents will be taken away and given to the one who brought much increase. He will be cast into outer darkness, out of the wedding because He was not clothed properly in Christ's merciful covering. There are many references to God's people honoring Him with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. These are always judged since judgment begins at the house of God. Some will receive few lashes, some will receive many because whom He loves He chastens. It is all about the process of reconciliation which brings all of creation back under Him, and so God will be all in all. All will be saved but as though through fire. Whatever is not of Him must be burned away. So are you 100% devoted to Yahweh, taking up your cross and following Christ Yahshua on the narrow path to life? Or are you 60%... or 30...?ByWaterAndBloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09901441412017611233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-25088762846179469822015-01-07T07:13:34.954-08:002015-01-07T07:13:34.954-08:00Kent,
I recently taught thru the Gospels in Sund...Kent, <br /><br />I recently taught thru the Gospels in Sunday School and taught a specific lesson on understanding parables. One of the keys to understanding the original meaning of a parable is to determine which are relevant details and which are irrelevant. A relevant detail is one which the meaning is dependent upon to understand the meaning of the parable. Irrelevant details would not change the meaning of the parable. Let's take Luke 11 for example. Whether the man stopped by at midnight or 1AM, or even 12:01 is irrelevant to the meaning. The truth of the parable is not changed by the exact time of the visit. <br /><br />My question I have is, do you think that Matthew 13 is talking about actions during the Millenial Kingdom, now, or both? <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Ken Ken Lengelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14808011240895370627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-38702070743781184202015-01-07T04:11:51.386-08:002015-01-07T04:11:51.386-08:00Maybe this will help George.
Only Jesus can say &...Maybe this will help George.<br /><br />Only Jesus can say "my church" as it relates to ownership.<br /><br />I can say "my church" as it relates to identification. Bobbyhttp://www.midcoastbaptistchurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-82799652843499551522015-01-06T23:59:14.296-08:002015-01-06T23:59:14.296-08:00Hi Thomas,
I don't think that your reason is ...Hi Thomas,<br /><br />I don't think that your reason is a good interpretational reason. In studying for Matthew and Mark in the past, I know that the average growth was far less than 30, so each of these are supernatural. I think the numbers are not literal per se, and I would have thought you would have recognized that I said that in the post. The point is not a literal 30, 60, 100, but that people will see reproduction at a different rate, not because of their own talents or even surrender, but because of the condition of the soil on which they plant. I don't think we should use the thought or some kind of "evidence" that some people don't reproduce as a basis for thinking 30 is not reproduction, but a level of growth. <br /><br />If one person is reproduced per generation from each convert, by the time we get to the kingdom, perhaps that is to thousands, and not just 100. Do we take 100 literally? I don't think each aspect of these parables gives us something literal.<br /><br />I think you can get this without preaching through all of Matthew.<br /><br />Do you understand that the parable, the words in it, don't introduce spiritual growth, but production like what the seed and the good ground produced?<br /><br />My issue in the post was using this passage as an argument for the 100 being obviously greater than the 30, so if someone thinks those numbers are spiritual growth levels, he isn't a problem with the main issue of my post.<br /><br />Thanks.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-24731098038414328302015-01-06T23:56:57.546-08:002015-01-06T23:56:57.546-08:00Folks reading,
Thomas Ross had written this comme...Folks reading,<br /><br />Thomas Ross had written this comment, and I published it, and then found it again in my email box, and since I had published it, I deleted that one, and so it deleted what I had published. I still had it in my email, so here is what Thomas Ross wrote (sorry Thomas):<br /><br />Thomas Ross: I have thought that the point of the 30, 60, 100 fold was different levels of spiritual growth in those who are converted by receiving the good seed. I have difficulty seeing that it is numbers of converts because not every truly saved person sees 30 or more people converted as a result of his witness. I have thought that the point was supernatural growth in those who received the good seed – that is, all saved people will be changed – although not all will grow as quickly. My understanding was that genuine conversion resulted in this kind of supernatural growth in contrast with the seed that is sowed on the other three types of ground, where there is not genuine conversion and consequently not genuine fruit in the life. Then again, I haven't preached verse by verse through Matthew like you have.<br /><br />Thanks for the post."Thomas Rossnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-60132693939151568312015-01-06T15:24:34.802-08:002015-01-06T15:24:34.802-08:00George,
I think you're being overly picky on ...George,<br /><br />I think you're being overly picky on "your church." In a technical sense, as it relates to ownership, it is the Lord's church, not any of ours. But when the Lord puts me in a church, it's my church now. I am His and He is mine. Saying it is my church doesn't mean I'm sovereign over it, but it means I'm a member, a body part.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-84205766434023673412015-01-06T15:21:31.966-08:002015-01-06T15:21:31.966-08:00Jeff,
Do some people have more capability to prod...Jeff,<br /><br />Do some people have more capability to produce fruit than others? I don't think so. Does God give certain Christians more capacity or capability than others? I believe scripture teaches otherwise. I believe we all have exactly the same capability spiritually. Consider the first few verses of 2 Peter. And then, Philippians 2, it is Him that works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-57666557143115171862015-01-06T13:50:33.922-08:002015-01-06T13:50:33.922-08:00Hi Chris.
The antecedent of pronouns is important...Hi Chris.<br /><br />The antecedent of pronouns is important in understanding a verse. "Which" is a masculine relative pronoun, so would almost certainly be referring with only a very few exceptions to a masculine noun. "He," first word, is masculine, "he" that heareth the word is masculine. I think it is referring to the one on whom the seed is sown, he, the one who is the good ground. "Which" is a relative pronoun, but I believe it refers to another masculine pronoun as its antecedent. I think the word "also" helps on this, <i>day</i>. It's a different word than is normally translated "also," and means "indeed." I think it is saying that the one who is produced will for sure reproduce -- you can count on reproduction.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-81842677835713250922015-01-06T13:37:50.557-08:002015-01-06T13:37:50.557-08:00Jeff,
As it relates to interpretation, I think my...Jeff,<br /><br />As it relates to interpretation, I think my problem with the "capability" interpretation there is that fruit has already been established in the text as conversion. The person receiving the seed is converted and then that person brings for more conversions. I would be open for an explanation how that is not so. Thirty what? Sixty what? One hundred what? Just like the person is produced, he will produce.<br /><br />I'd be interested the grammatical or syntactical reasons for "capability." Because it says he actually does bring it forth (poieo), not just is capable to.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-20002090706705532762015-01-06T13:26:41.532-08:002015-01-06T13:26:41.532-08:00One added comment to the last comment. I'm sa...One added comment to the last comment. I'm saying no one as of right now is banished from commenting, but a particular comment may not appear if I deem it unfit. Again, if you have a question about why that comment didn't appear, email me as the above address I provided and hopefully I'll get back to you. I say hopefully because I get so much email that sometimes I delete it accidentally.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-22582676576953806192015-01-06T13:24:59.662-08:002015-01-06T13:24:59.662-08:00Every reader,
I'm making a judgment call here...Every reader,<br /><br />I'm making a judgment call here. As I apply scripture, I do not believe allowing a blog comment is fellowship; therefore, I don't think whether I allow or not allow a comment is an issue of separation. Every comment is a judgment call. Based on that, my policy as of right now is to take each comment on a case by case basis, versus completely omitting the comments of one particular person. Some comments are not going to be a problem as I see it, and if I'm going to apply a kind of separation or disfellowship here, when I don't think it is fellowship in the first place, then to be consistent, I need to allow anyone to comment. I'm going to moderate the comments as I see fit. Generally, I have always let them through. If you have any questions about that, then email me at betbapt AT flash DOT NET.<br /><br />Someone can be a part of a false religion and comment here, but that doesn't mean we will allow any comment he or she says, if we don't think it would be best.<br />Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-19784989271452672542015-01-06T09:40:35.152-08:002015-01-06T09:40:35.152-08:00"Scripture doesn't emphasize how big your..."Scripture doesn't emphasize how big your church will become..."<br /><br />Good points to consider except the above statement.<br /><br />There is no place in the bible that "<b>your</b> church" has any place or bearing in defining the body of Christ or the work in accomplishing the great commission of bearing much fruit (numbers or quality) in and for the body of Christ. It is not anyone's church, except the head, which is Christ.The Preacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555338497068482867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-83876711195730747082015-01-06T08:18:43.084-08:002015-01-06T08:18:43.084-08:00Bro. Brandenburg,
Could the pronoun used in the te...Bro. Brandenburg,<br />Could the pronoun used in the text point us in the proper direction of understanding. It says "which beareth fruit"...a non-personal pronoun. If it was talking about the sower or another person would not it say "who beareth fruit"?? The ground/soil would be an inanimate object that would properly fit that pronoun.<br />Does that make sense or am I barking up the wrong tree?CGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13752880021670000871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-13653894872701229242015-01-06T07:43:30.844-08:002015-01-06T07:43:30.844-08:00Kent,
Dr. Darrell Champlin, missionary to Surinam...Kent,<br /><br />Dr. Darrell Champlin, missionary to Suriname, taught us in a missions class that the 30, 60, 100 in the parable referred to the capacity of the recipient to do more or less for God. (at least that's what I took from his lessons and still believe to this day--over 20 years later) That made sense to me and it seems to be true to the text and the parable.<br /><br />I think his point was...some converts (Christians) can do more than others. So don't don't demand more from someone whom God has not equipped to do so.Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13038716402776736733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-70897491286250055602015-01-05T23:14:01.184-08:002015-01-05T23:14:01.184-08:00Jim,
Thanks. Agreed.
D4,
This really is just s...Jim,<br /><br />Thanks. Agreed.<br /><br />D4,<br /><br />This really is just scriptural.<br /><br />Thomas,<br /><br />I didn't get into "fruit" being spiritual growth or fruit of the Spirit or something like that. I don't think that is what it is. It doesn't fit the story. I don't think there is a corresponding spiritual point for every detail of a parable. Here, the ratios are supernatural, far above the norm in the land.<br /><br />What would be your basis for saying that fruit is spiritual growth? I've heard that too, but I was specifically dealing with those who would say that you can do something about being a 100 in reproduction.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-42858956885341720882015-01-05T22:45:27.925-08:002015-01-05T22:45:27.925-08:00Dear Pastor Brandenburg,
I think I might be missi...Dear Pastor Brandenburg,<br /><br />I think I might be missing something that you explained in the post. I have thought that the 30, 60, 100 fold refers to different levels of spiritual growth in those that received the seed of the gospel, rather than referring to different numbers of people who were converted. If you could deal with this question, or if you already did and I just didn't get it, then if you could clarify, I would appreciate it very much. Thank you.KJB1611https://www.blogger.com/profile/09696273086955004524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-53494408563657898932015-01-05T09:05:22.445-08:002015-01-05T09:05:22.445-08:00Crypto-calvinism. Tsk, tsk.
:)Crypto-calvinism. Tsk, tsk. <br /><br />:)d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-40072059782051029042015-01-05T08:10:00.470-08:002015-01-05T08:10:00.470-08:00FWIW, I agree. I think this is an American proble...FWIW, I agree. I think this is an American problem. One of the best Christian men I have ever met is a missionary in Ethiopia. He is one of the busiest witnesses I have ever met. He witnesses, street preaches, passes out gospel tracts - He works very hard to reach these people, with very small results. (But he can't rely on the local charismatic church splitting to increase his attendance!)<br /><br />In America, he is a failure because he is not running 40 in attendance!?<br />Just my $.02JimCamp65https://www.blogger.com/profile/08293018820976464851noreply@blogger.com