tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post3794293445841870925..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: Gospel TroublesKent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-28840069660582744362014-09-19T17:51:14.849-07:002014-09-19T17:51:14.849-07:00"Well, 2 Cor 7:10 is part of an interesting p..."Well, 2 Cor 7:10 is part of an interesting passage but it has to do with believers who repented of the sin they were living in response to Paul's rebuke, not unbelievers turning from sin for eternal salvation."<br /><br />In context, you are correct much in the same way that Romans 6:23 is also towards the saints of God, but as reproof and rebuke to a sinner, "the wages of sin is death", even as the right kind of sorrow towards God when coming as a repentant sinner yields true salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).<br /><br />It is not one or the other, it is both (belief and repentance). He is Lord before you get saved, even as he is Lord after you get saved. Balanced truth leads to sound doctrine.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-4758058189379045642014-09-18T16:47:10.611-07:002014-09-18T16:47:10.611-07:00Well, 2 Cor 7:10 is part of an interesting passage...Well, 2 Cor 7:10 is part of an interesting passage but it has to do with believers who repented of the sin they were living in response to Paul's rebuke, not unbelievers turning from sin for eternal salvation.<br /><br />Also, for Acts 16:31, even if Paul had told him the essentials similar to that of 1 Cor 15, the jailer still had to believe it for himself. Same thing goes for us. Once we understand we are sinners and that Jesus is the payment then we can receive the gift of salvation by faith. It is trusting Him for it thereby changing our mind from any other way.<br /><br />Jim FJim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04206814540235700990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-84123745268154398542014-09-18T16:03:12.999-07:002014-09-18T16:03:12.999-07:00d4 wrote
"Likely Paul had already witnessed m...d4 wrote<br />"Likely Paul had already witnessed more completely to the jailor, or he went on to do so."<br /><br />The scriptures clearly bear this out 1 verse after he was to believe on the Lord.<br /><br />31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.<br />32 And they <b>spake unto him the word of the Lord</b>, and to all that were in his house.<br /><br />These are reasons why expository teaching of the bible is very important.<br /><br />Cherry picking the bible to create a false doctrine like "just believe" seems to be the norm these days.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47717802007726948432014-09-18T05:52:45.468-07:002014-09-18T05:52:45.468-07:00...so Paul also left vital points out when he told...<i>...so Paul also left vital points out when he told the Philippian jailer how to be saved?</i><br /><br />Jim, do you think that the statement "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," tells the whole gospel one must understand and embrace in order to be saved? One need not believe the resurrection? One need not know Christ died for our sins? One need not believe He was God?<br /><br />Likely Paul had already witnessed more completely to the jailor, or he went on to do so.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-44050487368421155462014-09-17T20:34:56.227-07:002014-09-17T20:34:56.227-07:00"telling a person to believe the gospel is in..."telling a person to believe the gospel is insufficient?"<br /><br />Yes, it is insufficient for the scriptures tell you in many places to:<br /><br /><b>Repent</b> therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19)<br /><br />Paul preached:<br /><br />Acts 20:19 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, <b>repentance toward God</b>, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.<br /><br />2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow <b>worketh repentance to salvation</b> not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.<br /><br />So, exactly what are you preaching if repentance from sin is not inherent to the gospel for Jesus Christ came to "save his people from their sins"?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-86765606356533347872014-09-17T20:32:52.838-07:002014-09-17T20:32:52.838-07:00Dear Jim,
Have you ever looked up every use of th...Dear Jim,<br /><br />Have you ever looked up every use of the word of "disciple" to see if it supports your anti-Lordship position? If not, you really ought to look at the study here:<br /><br />http://faithsaves.net/all-believers-disciples/<br /><br />Have you ever looked up every instance of the "believe" word group in the Old and New Testaments? if not, maybe you ought to look at the study here:<br /><br />http://faithsaves.net/the-just-shall-live-by-faith/<br /><br />Have you ever looked up every instance of the "abide" word group? Perhaps you ought to look at the study here:<br /><br />http://faithsaves.net/study-meno-abide-in-christ-new-testament-john-15/<br /><br />Have you ever done a synchronic and diachronic study of the "repent" groups to see if your definition of the word as a change of mind that may or may not result in anything is exegetically defensible? Perhaps you ought to look at the study here:<br /><br />http://faithsaves.net/repentance-change-of-mind-change-of-action/<br /><br />Having done all the studies I just mentioned, I found the anti-Lordship views of these doctrines extremely wanting. The questions that you asked are so easily answered that they evidence a desperate need for careful Bible study. It is very unfortunate that you believe that they are convincing arguments.<br /><br />Search the Scriptures, for your own soul's sake and for the sake of those who you influence. IKJB1611https://www.blogger.com/profile/09696273086955004524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47146915768958273742014-09-17T16:22:36.995-07:002014-09-17T16:22:36.995-07:00Perhaps you all could elaborate on why you think t...Perhaps you all could elaborate on why you think telling a person to believe the gospel is insufficient? The Bible itself is clear that it(salvation) is by faith only, right? If not, what verses say otherwise?<br /><br />I'm not trying to give you guys a hard time but am curious as to your response.<br /><br />Jim FJim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04206814540235700990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-91447891899385770892014-09-17T16:16:55.948-07:002014-09-17T16:16:55.948-07:00Kent, so Paul also left vital points out when he t...Kent, so Paul also left vital points out when he told the Philippian jailer how to be saved? Or when Jesus said to Nicodemus that whosoever believeth in Him... was he leaving parts out? And what parts? Turning from sin, commitments to follow in discipleship, fruit bearing?<br /><br />One other thing to consider is if disciple equals believer always, then why is one conditioned upon faith and the other on counting the cost and deciding to leave all? There is no way that that equals faith (believing the gospel).<br /><br />Jim FJim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04206814540235700990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-72599883959992792772014-09-17T15:04:53.007-07:002014-09-17T15:04:53.007-07:00Bro. B.,
how was Phillips on the Proverbs (in gen...Bro. B.,<br /><br />how was Phillips on the Proverbs (in general)? I was thinking of getting that book for my sons.<br /><br />Also, I think they're just ignoring Bigelow's trollery. Which is just.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-19252159585814597072014-09-17T14:36:53.876-07:002014-09-17T14:36:53.876-07:00Dear Jim F.,
Please read the careful exegetical s...Dear Jim F.,<br /><br />Please read the careful exegetical study here:<br /><br />http://faithsaves.net/all-believers-disciples/<br /><br />and see whether Scripture teaches that only an elite minority of believers are disciples. Thanks.KJB1611https://www.blogger.com/profile/09696273086955004524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-65776354193287687382014-09-17T12:55:55.888-07:002014-09-17T12:55:55.888-07:00"You leave vital parts out that are going to ..."You leave vital parts out that are going to result in most people never being saved, and that's why they don't have power over sin, because they were not converted."<br /><br />Amen.<br /><br />The gospel without repentance means nothing and results in false conversions, because it is a false gospel since only half a truth is told. If one's life is not changed, then he is not a child of God.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-91405876247180169782014-09-17T12:01:40.488-07:002014-09-17T12:01:40.488-07:00One more thing, you talk like someone is adding so...One more thing, you talk like someone is adding something to salvation, when what we're preaching is obvious from the Bible. What you are doing Jim is conforming the Bible to a mid 19th century and later position, and then you say that what we are teaching was invented by John MacArthur. You will not find what you teach before the middle of the 1800s and there is a reason why that is the extent of the history -- it is new and not true.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-40211550113715180922014-09-17T12:00:23.937-07:002014-09-17T12:00:23.937-07:00Jim F,
Faith needs to be defined by the Bible. T...Jim F,<br /><br />Faith needs to be defined by the Bible. The comment that states that one can have saving faith in. Jesus and never live for Him is completely Anti-Christ in light of. Matthew 7, the epistle of James, etc. All those who believe to the saving of the soul bear some fruit, 30, 60, 100 fold... All with this faith have some gold, silver, and precious stones. Read Philippians 1 and 2. The promises of God that saved people grow, mature, serve Him, etc. are precious and crystal clear. The salvation that you preach is no salvation at all. The sinner is left wallowing and drowning in their sin, unrescued, unsaved. Read what the actual grace of God accomplishes in the last verses of Titus. Consider and be wise.Bobbyhttp://www.apurechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-20295402397629756392014-09-17T11:57:40.475-07:002014-09-17T11:57:40.475-07:00Discipleship gospels? I just shake my head. What...Discipleship gospels? I just shake my head. What is that? What I read from you guys is that someone is going his own way and believing in Jesus Christ amounts to continuing in that way without ever turning to Jesus. If so, it isn't a "free gift." Ironically, if someone asks for the free gift, he's asking, not believing, so isn't asking a work? You take so many parts out of it that you are not left with something that will save. Some might get saved, but it won't be because of the extent of the message that you preach. You leave vital parts out that are going to result in most people never being saved, and that's why they don't have power over sin, because they were not converted.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-37487221676617858252014-09-17T10:01:39.061-07:002014-09-17T10:01:39.061-07:00Hi Kent,
I think for too long in fundamental circ...Hi Kent,<br /><br />I think for too long in fundamental circles, we have let discipleship gospels slide by unchecked. That and Calvinism. I still have yet to see how what I advocate at standforthefaith.com or even at Lou's site is a false gospel. Based on what exactly? Verses dealing with discipleship? <br /><br />Some of this debate goes also back to definitions of terms. The speaker you linked to also has a booklet on repentance that I think warrants consideration for those in fundamentalism wondering what the different views on repentance are.<br /><br />https://expreacherman.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/cucuzza-repentance-booklet-pdf.pdf<br /><br />Last time I checked there is no other way to receive the gift of salvation other than through faith. (100 plus verses say so)So then the discussion becomes: what does it mean to repent and believe. That is where the main differences appear. When people lump extras into faith then we have another gospel created.<br /><br />Jim FJim Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04206814540235700990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-33929016360318207322014-09-17T08:24:15.619-07:002014-09-17T08:24:15.619-07:00Oh, that last didn't come through. So . . . c...Oh, that last didn't come through. So . . . carry on. Little matter. d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-2698446612523854302014-09-17T07:37:14.449-07:002014-09-17T07:37:14.449-07:00Meant that last in response to the anony-mouse. Meant that last in response to the anony-mouse. d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-65389857197019453532014-09-17T07:36:36.895-07:002014-09-17T07:36:36.895-07:00D4,
I see a rationale for fundamentalism too, but...D4,<br /><br />I see a rationale for fundamentalism too, but it is somewhat like how that David originally saw a rationale for the cart that carried the ark. I do think the analogy fits.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-42216911552619636352014-09-17T07:35:54.194-07:002014-09-17T07:35:54.194-07:00Oooo. A trap! Cue suspenseful music.Oooo. A trap! Cue suspenseful music.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-28083351648499157242014-09-17T07:34:25.895-07:002014-09-17T07:34:25.895-07:00An anonymous comment asking me if I'm going to...An anonymous comment asking me if I'm going to publically join or affiliate with something is funny to me. A person can't affiliate with me by putting his name, but he wants to know if I'll do that with Scott Aniol.<br /><br />I wonder how conservative a church is that doesn't separate from false worship. That church may be conservative itself, but it fellowships with churches and men who are not conservative, because they're Calvinist. If God is so pure that He won't even look upon evil, how does someone join the Southern Baptist Convention?Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-15442988405111656832014-09-17T06:42:23.527-07:002014-09-17T06:42:23.527-07:00So are you going to sign the Conservative Christia...So are you going to sign the Conservative Christian Declaration on Scott Aniol website, Religious Affections? <br />http://religiousaffections.org/publishing/a-conservative-christian-declaration/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-85381941777267738432014-09-17T04:05:55.869-07:002014-09-17T04:05:55.869-07:00Bro. B.,
Lots to appreciate here. I'll start...Bro. B.,<br /><br />Lots to appreciate here. I'll start with an aside that I think I see some rationale from the NT for fundamentalism as a test for cooperation between churches, but not within a church itself--there confessionalism seems more appropriate. <br /><br />As someone once said though, fundamentalism as an idea is great, but it is the movement we have to live with. And once the movement cannot agree on what the gospel is, how can there be any fundamental agreement? The FBFI is mixed on its belief about the gospel. And this difference is ignored in their midst. <br /><br />While I share Dr. Bauder's concern over its general disdain for full Calvinism, I wish he'd clearly address the larger problem. <br /><br />And I'm glad to see you call out Martuneac and his false gospel.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.com