tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post8192617839957124073..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, Headcoverings, and Historical DoctrineKent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-36011575602843133432014-09-25T20:46:02.257-07:002014-09-25T20:46:02.257-07:00Amen.Amen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1598751350946084982014-09-25T20:12:13.304-07:002014-09-25T20:12:13.304-07:00Ken,
Thanks. Didn't know you were in Charlot...Ken,<br /><br />Thanks. Didn't know you were in Charlotte. I'm learning more about NC.<br /><br />Anonymous,<br /><br />I was as close to saying that women should have short hair as you were to saying that women should dress like a man.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-15333113560666726832014-09-25T20:07:40.297-07:002014-09-25T20:07:40.297-07:00No sir. A women dresses like a women and it is no...No sir. A women dresses like a women and it is not "in the attire of a harlot" nor is it in "that which pertaineth to a man"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-73871404352992923662014-09-25T20:02:25.911-07:002014-09-25T20:02:25.911-07:00Anonymous,
No.
So are you saying that women shou...Anonymous,<br /><br />No.<br /><br />So are you saying that women should dress like a man?Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-33702738125825832422014-09-25T19:59:59.866-07:002014-09-25T19:59:59.866-07:00So, are you saying that the scriptures teach in th...So, are you saying that the scriptures teach in this context that women can have short hair? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-85756204574687808642014-09-25T19:53:31.439-07:002014-09-25T19:53:31.439-07:00Hi John,
I wrote in this piece: " I’ve list...Hi John,<br /><br />I wrote in this piece: " I’ve listened and read about history. I know churches have practiced this. I know a lot of churches have. I know that you’ll find the headcovering position in the patristics. That makes total sense to me. You’ll find it among Roman Catholics and Protestants and even Baptists. People did practice headcoverings, I believe. That is a historical practice."<br /><br />I know people believed it. I think i said that too. But. Is my (our) position historical? These aren't far out examples I'm giving, and Spurgeon is mid to late 1800s. If there are several historical positions, you've got to make a choice, and then it comes down to what scripture says. I'm fine with counterpoints, but we can't make claims that someone is just ignoring history, when they are not. And usually, when we find out that's a false claim, we retract. You can argue here for your position. It's fine.<br /><br />I didn't know you were in NC. You've probably said, but I do not remember that. I did a search in my emails and there was nothing from you I could find there. Maybe you have emailed me, but I couldn't find it, when I tried to communicate privately.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-402041577789598282014-09-25T19:43:48.203-07:002014-09-25T19:43:48.203-07:00Some good counterpoint here:
http://www.the-highw...Some good counterpoint here:<br /><br />http://www.the-highway.com/headcovering_Silversides.html<br /><br />“Do you think you and I have sufficiently considered that we are always looked upon by angels, and that they desire to learn by us the wisdom of God? The reason why our sisters appear in the House of God with their heads covered is because of the angels. The apostle says that a woman is to have a covering upon her head, because of the angels, since the angels are present in the assembly, they mark every act of indecorum, and therefore everything is to be conducted with the decency and order in the presence of the angelic spirits.”<br />[Sermon on Ephesians 3:10, Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. 8, page 263.]<br />- Charles H. Spurgeon<br /><br />Blessings<br />John G<br />Newton, NCJOHN GARDNERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17629427894921858214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-41423269434716302132014-09-25T13:09:19.707-07:002014-09-25T13:09:19.707-07:00Have a great service, I am outside of Charlotte, b...Have a great service, I am outside of Charlotte, but Carrsboro is a few hours away. <br /><br />KenKen Lengelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14808011240895370627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-61762958537043504112014-09-25T07:29:27.808-07:002014-09-25T07:29:27.808-07:00By the way, anyone, this is another reason I give ...By the way, anyone, this is another reason I give for the pant/skirt distinction. There must be a symbol. That must occur. Dan Wallace takes this identical position and says the application is women wearing dresses/skirts, and he's not even conservative. You'll see his article at bible.org. I'm not endorsing him, but I think it is a good argument.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-60250235962595021592014-09-25T07:26:56.777-07:002014-09-25T07:26:56.777-07:00Hi,
I'm on the road in NC. If anyone is in t...Hi,<br /><br />I'm on the road in NC. If anyone is in the Carrboro, Chapel Hill area, come to the last night of the meetings at Calvary Baptist Church on Main Street in Carrboro, 7:30pm.<br /><br />D4,<br /><br />I think it is good to give the benefit of the doubt, but usually someone says, don't really want you "advertising your blog" on our site -- let us choose to advertise Dan Phillips and Don Carson, men more like us, not you. But you're right. I'm engaging on the exact topic. I ask Snoeberger a question. Crickets. His prerogative. I do the same here sometimes out of busyness.<br /><br />Chris,<br /><br />I believe 14,15 are parenthetic. I think that because he asks a question in v. 13 and answers it in v. 16. In between that he asks another question that indicates the whole idea of distinctions designed into the natural order by God, and that these Gentiles would have gotten that idea from God. Gentiles didn't have the law, but they had the law written in their hearts that informed them of these types of distinctions that would have tended toward a national custom.<br /><br />That argument does give pause, I believe, bro, because headcovering/hair, both head coverings, one worn and the other grown, created by God, but I think in light of "custom," it is what I'm gathering.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-44683458585899071022014-09-25T06:46:25.500-07:002014-09-25T06:46:25.500-07:00Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on why ...Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on why you don't see a connection between head coverings and what Paul goes on to say in verse 15 where he makes some sort of connection between long hair and "covering?" If it was just a custom, why do you think Paul made that connection? I know that wasn't the purpose of your article from a historical position...I'm just trying to connect all the dots in my head...CGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13752880021670000871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47389029575697711262014-09-25T06:26:27.676-07:002014-09-25T06:26:27.676-07:00I think the cold shoulder happens. Sometimes it m...I think the cold shoulder happens. Sometimes it might be more out of unwillingness to have an argument that will likely go unresolved due to solid doctrinal/practical commitments.<br /><br />I've also seen it done due to lack of brotherly love (on the part of the blog) or trollishness on part of the commenter. <br /><br />If you're talking about the DTBS blog though, my guess is they might have seen your post as spammish. I don't think you meant it as that so much as an offer to engage them in a matter you've thought and written lots about. Those links though in the post, though, red flags to some.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-85770699618640587752014-09-25T06:14:20.060-07:002014-09-25T06:14:20.060-07:00One more thing, I thought of this after I moved on...One more thing, I thought of this after I moved on. I see the cold shoulder as a style of the church growth movement too. A Rick Warren would choose a music style and then say that those who have a more conservative style might need to "move on." If you are going to make an omelet, you've got to break a few eggs. I can give you many specific examples of it.<br /><br />Cold shoulder isn't the only strategy. Others are equally bad without practicing biblical separation, going through the loving motions that one does if he cares for someone else.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-88042926093423247822014-09-25T06:09:24.274-07:002014-09-25T06:09:24.274-07:00He's not in our area. I think he's a leas...He's not in our area. I think he's a least 2/3 of the country away. I believe that he in fact wants to be in fellowship, just that this one thing bugs him and so the challenge is coming from his side. I'm not opposed to headcoverings is my initial reaction, because I see it as a customary and not a scriptural regulation. I don't see wearing it as a violation of God's Word, but, yes, the belief could result in separation.<br /><br />Do you think I'm wrong on the cold shoulder technique? I've seen it again and again from fundamentalism and conservative evangelicals who have fundamentalist instincts. The cold shoulder seems to be like a tantrum or a mean girl thing where the rest of the girls aren't talking to the one girl. That would make me a girl in the metaphor, but I'm not the one giving the cold shoulder.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-34949699737090452432014-09-25T05:57:36.309-07:002014-09-25T05:57:36.309-07:00Hi Kent,
I think that helps me understand where ...Hi Kent, <br /><br />I think that helps me understand where you are at. And of course, individuals interested in joining your assembly is a different animal from a church across town with a long established practice with which you cannot agree. <br /><br />I think for some reason I thought this particular commenter lived in the British Isles. I didn't pick up that he was in your general vicinity until I went back and reread the comments from June. <br /><br />I hope you and he can come to a resolution.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-7124885954920441482014-09-25T05:46:57.276-07:002014-09-25T05:46:57.276-07:00Hi D4,
Thanks for comment. I agree with you in p...Hi D4,<br /><br />Thanks for comment. I agree with you in principle, but that's not what it looks like on the ground. You start by giving people an opportunity to grow, not just cut them off. I would be that way with anyone, including you. And Ben. And, of course, we would talk about it from scripture and be patient (with all men) -- supporting and strengthening and warning. But we don't start with, you believe and practice differently, so we're going to cut you off. Sheer proximity will result in not fellowshiping with everyone. But for someone who comes into our church, we want him to come there, and as long as he doesn't cause division, he can stay. What will happen afterwards will determine a lot, but we're not ignoring that doctrine. It's likely that it won't last if the women are wearing headcoverings, because it will cause division in our church.<br /><br />And then there are those that just cut you off and they don't even say anything, leaving you to guess. That is the cold shoulder style that I experienced at a certain blog recently. That is the separation of fundamentalism. And, by the way, certain segments of conservative evangelicalism do the same. If I were to the left of them and vastly different and pushing that, they would allow me, even be nice to me. Differ from the right, and you are given the cold shoulder. Easy to see.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-85110508519059431702014-09-25T05:22:57.060-07:002014-09-25T05:22:57.060-07:00Bro. B., I think the issue between you and that p...Bro. B., I think the issue between you and that particular commenter gets at the heart of the point Ben and I were trying to make to you a few weeks back, i.e. that you were not being consistent with your separation paradigm. <br /><br />JG teaches that God commands that women wear head coverings in public worship. You and I understand that he says "Thus hath God said" when God has actually said no such thing. It's different from people who wear it out of personal conviction but cause no ripples about it. He preaches those who do not do so are in sin. <br /><br />JG is confronting what he sees as an apostasy of head coverings. You know he is wrong. You should be as separated from him as you are from me on the translation issue.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.com