tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post7516469657936170476..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: THE EJECT BUTTON---Zichterman and Beckwith Learned Their Lessons a Little Too WellKent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-10498791235989771482007-05-23T23:19:00.000-07:002007-05-23T23:19:00.000-07:00Hello Bobby, and what he said regarding BJU, Don, ...Hello Bobby, and what he said regarding BJU, Don, I don't have any particular beef with BJ. My wife went there. I think she got a basically good education, probably an overall higher standard than what she would have gotten anywhere else. When I see her do good work, I'm thankful for her college education. Everything is doctrinal and practical; zero political on this front. BJU does nothing to me; neither does MBBC. But MBBC wouldn't believe these six, even still. That's why I didn't include them in the list---that truly was a typo.<BR/><BR/>The "who canonized Scripture" is semantical. I could put "the Holy Spirit canonized through the RCC" and it's the same thing. I don't think I'm putting words in people's mouths and I challenge you to find out for yourself. Don't use my name. That will bring more heat than light, but ask for yourself. I've had back and forth with Detroit---I know that they believe these six. Years back I had an email exchange with Gerald Priest there, and they believe this. On 1 Cor. 12 being taught local church, I would be surprised. I can't say you weren't taught that, but I have never ever heard anything but universal there. What is "body" in 1 Cor. 12:13 then?<BR/><BR/>All I'm saying is that from what I read, the doctrinal basis for the Zichterman/Beckwith ejection are these six points, which are still taught at these places.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-50980427864031418692007-05-23T18:35:00.000-07:002007-05-23T18:35:00.000-07:00Hi KentI think that you are saying too much with y...Hi Kent<BR/><BR/>I think that you are saying too much with your statements, and thus putting words in the mouths of others. On point two:<BR/><BR/>"There is to be no schism in the body."<BR/><BR/>You point out 1 Cor 12.25, but my profs would have rightly noted that 1 Cor 12 is a local church passage, not a universal church passage. Further, the existence of apparent schism in the visible church is not the same as schism in the invisible church. And finally, the unity of the body is the responsibility of God, who will bring about the final union of the body in the glory, but not necessarily in the visible church of this dispensation.<BR/><BR/>On point 3:<BR/><BR/>"We are to rank doctrines and practice into essentials and non-essentials for the sake of unity."<BR/><BR/>The rationale for ranking doctrines is not for the sake of unity but for the sake of justifying separation. There are some doctrines over which we will not separate, or over which we will only separate on a limited basis (church polity questions, for example).<BR/><BR/>On "The truth was preserved by the invisible church, the true church, within the visible church."<BR/><BR/>Well... isn't the truth preserved by God?<BR/><BR/>On the canonization question, I don't think humans canonized anything, nor was I taught that. Christians recognized the canon, they didn't canonize.<BR/><BR/>Basically, I think that you are reading some of your own conflicts with the BJU/Maranatha et al crowd into this article. I don't think any of this is behind Zichterman's choices, nor do I think that you are really capturing the teaching of BJU/Maranatha accurately in your summation.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Don Johnson<BR/>Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-29475632115292365522007-05-23T18:24:00.000-07:002007-05-23T18:24:00.000-07:00Don, You weren't paying attention at BJU if you d...Don, <BR/><BR/>You weren't paying attention at BJU if you didn't learn these things.<BR/><BR/>My dad is a grad, and he'll confirm what Kent has written here. Thankfully, Dad grew to a Biblical understanding of preservation, the church, church history, etc. since he graduated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-2459980182593298252007-05-23T12:35:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:35:00.000-07:00Excuse me on one thing---I said English separatism...Excuse me on one thing---I said English separatism taught at MBBC, that was a typo; I meant BJU. MBBC is spiritual kinship even still, I believe.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-48413780733508316972007-05-23T12:33:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:33:00.000-07:00Don,I would be amazed if you are correct here. Th...Don,<BR/><BR/>I would be amazed if you are correct here. Think about what you are saying. 1 Cor. 12:25 point blank says there is to be no schism in the body. They don't believe that? I do.<BR/><BR/>Then ranking doctrines---what about the "fundamentals of the faith"---I was taught that at Maranatha when I went. #4 and #5 are what the English separatists believe, which is what is taught at MBBC. If history doesn't show RC canonizing Scripture, what is it that you were taught? I would be curious, because this is all that I hear from the other side on that issue. They won't call it RC, but the church fathers--what's the difference?<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your answer, but I would like someone to show me how that #1-6 is wrong. I do know some pastors that graduated from BJU, etc. believe and practice and teach differently, but that isn't what I was saying. For instance, BJ published "This Day in Baptist History," but BJ doesn't believe that view of Baptist history, which is ironic.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-51670122531541847892007-05-21T23:40:00.000-07:002007-05-21T23:40:00.000-07:00Kent,I've been away, but now I'm back... I think y...Kent,<BR/><BR/>I've been away, but now I'm back... I think you are really really reaching with this one. You ask:<BR/><BR/>"Which of these are not taught at BJU, Detroit, Calvary-Lansdale, Northland, Masters, Faith, or Central?"<BR/><BR/>Of your six points, only the first one would have been taught at all at BJU during my time there. None of the rest of those statements would have been taught at that time. I have no reason to believe that any of them have been taught since.<BR/><BR/>Zichterman made his decisions for his own reasons. If you want to blame institutions for the weirdo decisions their graduates make, then there is not an institution on earth that will stand that test, including the church you lead. People do all kinds of things contrary to what they have been taught. That doesn't put the teacher at fault.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Don Johnson<BR/>Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.com