tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post1799337499502895506..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: More on "It Is Written"Kent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-11609825295207299872010-08-23T19:29:19.592-07:002010-08-23T19:29:19.592-07:00Saying that the words God gave to Moses, etc. as a...Saying that the words God gave to Moses, etc. as a one time action continued to exist based on the perfect tense does not by any means mean that the original copies must be around. Such a conclusion is by no means a valid inference from Pastor Brandenburg's "it is written" argument.Thomas Rosshttp://thross7.googlepages.com/homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-27102590997630038062010-07-28T18:33:10.143-07:002010-07-28T18:33:10.143-07:00Hi Gary,
No, I don't believe the originals we...Hi Gary,<br /><br />No, I don't believe the originals were around in the first century. But it seems to me that for Kent's argument regarding gegraptai to be correct, they would have to be.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-31588719320523449462010-07-28T11:55:25.139-07:002010-07-28T11:55:25.139-07:00Don,
Do you believe that the original writings of ...Don,<br />Do you believe that the original writings of Moses were still around in Jesus' day? That is a new one to me.Gary Webbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-29832110582820250392010-07-28T11:36:58.144-07:002010-07-28T11:36:58.144-07:00On the other hand, in order for anyone to be able ...On the other hand, in order for anyone to be able to say, barring omniscience, "it is written" about anything, a copy of the writing must be extant. I don't think that necessitates the copy is perfect. Especially when Brother Sutton concedes that the language spoken to Satan in Matt. 4 may not have been strictly the original Hebrew.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-64373971242957932332010-07-28T10:11:14.508-07:002010-07-28T10:11:14.508-07:00Jeff, Thanks. In a lot of ways, I think I'm ...Jeff, Thanks. In a lot of ways, I think I'm just reporting here, not coming up with anything new.<br /><br />Don,<br /><br />It's tough for me in a comment section to say what I want to say, and your article also interested me in looking further into what others had said. Unless someone reads both our blogs, they wouldn't know I was responding to something there. Andy's last comment was the "centerpiece" comment. I could tell it wasn't appropriate to comment to him there, and I felt like he was still being allowed to get away with that.<br /><br />The product of the writing were the letters and words, the original letters and words. I believe those were still existent in Jesus' day, not likely the physical originals, but copies that preserved what was written. What was written was still written. No one has made your "must be the original parchment" point that I know of. I've never read it.<br /><br />I'd be glad to see some book that makes the point that there is no preservation point in gegraptai, that hasn't been written recently in response to something perfect preservationists have written.<br /><br />Here is the greatest merit of the argument---it harmonizes with the statements about preservation.<br /><br />Gary,<br /><br />I agree. When I read brand new arguments, like Aaron's, I'm open to believing them, but brand new ones should have some kind of convincing biblical data to overturn old ones, the only ones people have already been making. His reads like a reach. They read like someone who has a point already. Their acceptance seems to me to be related more to their political correctness than their strength.<br /><br />I think when people made their original points about gegraptai, they weren't thinking about issues and what was the politically correct side to come down upon, so they just wrote them.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-67836227297198678692010-07-28T04:51:55.036-07:002010-07-28T04:51:55.036-07:00Brother Brandenburg,
I looked up all the links to ...Brother Brandenburg,<br />I looked up all the links to the different commentaries. They all said the same thing, which is the same argument that brother Sutton made in the book, & is the same thing that I was taught in my Greek classes. Aaron is the ONLY person I have ever read in any place who has made the argument that he made against the indication of the perfect tense.<br />I hope that Aaron will read your post, become "sharper", admit his error as an honest Christian, & post a link with his article so that other Christians might see the error of his argument. He might not change his position on the text, but at least he would demonstrate his willingness to learn & his honesty in dealing with facts. What do you think?Gary Webbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-89137231243364378732010-07-27T23:31:37.202-07:002010-07-27T23:31:37.202-07:00Hey, Kent. I'm getting to you, eh?
I don'...Hey, Kent. I'm getting to you, eh?<br /><br />I don't think it was me that said the perfect tense argument was a centerpiece of your argument, did I? If so, I didn't mean to say so. I see it as a secondary argument, but a weak one.<br /><br />If the perfect means what you say it means (and I think you are misreading what your sources are saying), then we would still have the originals.<br /><br />The action being described, 'it is written', was the writing of the originals, correct? Not the copying, the writing.<br /><br />So if it means that the action described has a permanent result, then the originals would at least have been still around in Jesus' day. And if the verb promises what you want it to promise (i.e., perfect preservation), then we would still have the originals today.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-63575792805141651052010-07-27T17:19:36.673-07:002010-07-27T17:19:36.673-07:00Seems fairly simple to follow to me. Thanks for w...Seems fairly simple to follow to me. Thanks for writing this.Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718288010688756299noreply@blogger.com