tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post1605128682824184627..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: When I Left Fundamentalism part twoKent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-73114718956552047892011-03-01T17:49:20.270-08:002011-03-01T17:49:20.270-08:00Bobby wrote "can't we all get along at le...<i>Bobby wrote "can't we all get along at least when it comes to various breads?"</i><br /><br /><b>=)</b>d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-86011177301994806302011-03-01T09:47:28.385-08:002011-03-01T09:47:28.385-08:00Stephen - If I had to grow a beard, it would be a ...Stephen - If I had to grow a beard, it would be a perfectly Victorian set of friendly lambchops.<br /><br />Example - <a href="http://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Burnside-portrait.jpg" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Burnside - terrible general, but ahead of his time as far as pogonology is concerned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-81703068891014266532011-02-28T16:33:39.611-08:002011-02-28T16:33:39.611-08:00Kent:
Are you referring to Joshua who is “keen to...Kent:<br /><br />Are you referring to Joshua who is “keen to read Kent’s response”? How nice. What does that mean? Okay now I am keenly mocking just a little. But I thought I had another keen comment that I don’t see. However, I wasn’t mocking you and don’t know what you mean by “trading insults.” I actually agree on much of what you say about Fundamentalism and have not considered myself part of any movement for a long time. I just thought that if profs and many grads mocked the KJV that you would be able to give some keen specifics. If you don’t want to do it publicly, send me a keen email. My point and challenge is that I don’t think you can do it but am willing to be proven wrong. This keen invention helps your story in recounting your experience of mocking and scoffing and how keen you were to discern that. But did it really happen? That is the keen question. <br /><br />SteveSteve Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871063934302893993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-33248009283677359692011-02-28T16:17:39.797-08:002011-02-28T16:17:39.797-08:00Titus:
Funny what people remember. Seems like you...Titus:<br /><br />Funny what people remember. Seems like you have some kind of fixation on black turtlenecks and goatees. At least I don’t mind showing my face. What do you have peach fuzz? :-)<br /><br />SteveSteve Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871063934302893993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-46782826615895044522011-02-28T00:19:10.906-08:002011-02-28T00:19:10.906-08:00This isn't an expose' on Calvary, Lansdale...This isn't an expose' on Calvary, Lansdale, just an account of my gradual considerations of fundamentalism. I moved to Pennsylvania fully intending on attending the seminary there. I went all the way to Eastern PA from Wisconsin and then moved all the way back; it's not hard to remember why. It's part of this story.<br /><br />I think my trading insults with you, Steve, would run counterproductive. I agree with Joshua, however, that your comments do a great job of illustrating the point. I would hope that the irony wouldn't be lost on a self-professed Dostoyevsky reader---the use of mockery to defend against mockery.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-85169719690976052472011-02-27T11:23:02.841-08:002011-02-27T11:23:02.841-08:00Steven! Long time, no see!
Your black deco turtl...Steven! Long time, no see!<br /><br />Your black deco turtleneck and goatee beard still have no power over me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-17816427090655560302011-02-26T18:24:10.499-08:002011-02-26T18:24:10.499-08:00I just read on Sharper Iron where Joel T. said tha...I just read on Sharper Iron where Joel T. said that he might disagree with you on the "roll of women in the church." I'm curious about that. When I was there for the WOT conference last November I actually had a roll that was baked by one of the ladies there. Or is it all the women (plural) working together for one roll (singular) as Joel wrote? Is this maybe an instance of "the roll" being used in the universal, mystical sense?<br /><br />BTW, are you local only when it comes to the rolls? Is it the roll or the rolls? <br /><br />I personally, after "proving" the roll and "trying" the said piece of bread (little rhyme for ya there) found myself in sweet koinonia with it and the other foodstuffs. I was really "striahgt ahead" with all the eats.<br /><br />Have you and JT actually had any serious discussion about the rolls? Maybe potatoes? Puddings?<br /><br />Honestly, I know that we should try and prove everything, but can't we all get along at least when it comes to various breads?Bobbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-70576166487038246432011-02-25T21:37:42.908-08:002011-02-25T21:37:42.908-08:00I thought I recognized your name Stephen, so I did...I thought I recognized your name Stephen, so I did a search to see when you last came over. I invite readers to follow this link and read the comments:<br /><br />http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/does-accommodation-to-culture-help.html<br /><br />Last time this man was here, he came to scoff and mock. Curious that this accusation against his alma mater gets this sort of rise out of him.<br /><br />I'm still keen to read Kent's response, but I think the above is an important consideration should this become a "did not! did too!" situationJoshuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-8907475208279147882011-02-25T10:23:11.371-08:002011-02-25T10:23:11.371-08:00Kent:
I'd like to take issue with your commen...Kent:<br /><br />I'd like to take issue with your comment on the KJV:<br /><br />"…the professors and many graduates mocked the King James Version. E. Robert Jordan was a King James advocate, but the school already ridiculed the translation while he was still the pastor of the church. I'm not saying they took a different position. I'm saying that they scoffed the King James."<br /><br />I don't think you are knowingly fabricating that, or hope not, but I question the accuracy of your recall. Sure there may've been a professor or some graduates who did that but I never heard it or knew of it. I was a student there from 1978-1982, planted a church under ER's leadership in 1982, was on staff at Calvary from 1999-2009, and adjunct professor at the seminary until last year. When I was a student there and KJV advocate we had great discussions and arguments over versions in hallways and classrooms. "Mock" goes way too far and paints godly men in an unflattering and false way akin to slander. For those who think you are dong a “service” I’d like them to know that your narrow view is only that – your view and distorted in this case. Surely the men at Calvary don't hold to the KJV as you do but you exaggerate in order to prove something that proves nothing. Your characterization of Calvary is not true. Leave whatever for whatever but you should retract your error although I don’t know if I have ever seen you admit wrong. <br /><br />Steve DavisSteve Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871063934302893993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-24151273355877680772011-02-25T10:07:26.460-08:002011-02-25T10:07:26.460-08:00Kent-
I totally understand where you're comin...Kent-<br /><br />I totally understand where you're coming from and what you've been through, and can sympathize. I think we have a LOT in common, although I didn't necessarily grow up in the Hyles Orbit that you did (although my wife did).<br /><br />Appreciate your articles and am looking forward to reading the rest.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685684588191291542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-26406351081323981242011-02-25T10:05:26.366-08:002011-02-25T10:05:26.366-08:00Hi Kent-
I agree with you and can sympathize stro...Hi Kent-<br /><br />I agree with you and can sympathize strongly with what you've been through. Looking forward to the rest of your articles.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685684588191291542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-17995484193473249902011-02-25T07:29:52.919-08:002011-02-25T07:29:52.919-08:00Kent,
Read part one and two. Interesting stuff. ...Kent, <br /><br />Read part one and two. Interesting stuff. <br /><br />My orb of fundamentalism has not been the same as yours and I have not experienced some of the things you have. <br /><br />I posted these as Filings over on Sharper Iron<br /><br />Sincerely<br /><br />Jim PeetJim Peethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649414726939918803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-40264451322223019802011-02-23T16:31:58.206-08:002011-02-23T16:31:58.206-08:00Kent,
I can't speak for all your experience a...Kent,<br /><br />I can't speak for all your experience at FBF meetings, but I attended a meeting in your area about the time you decided to pull out of that arena of fellowship. I think it was just before... didn't you send the rest of the fellows a letter about it, or something?<br /><br />In any case, my recollection of that regional meeting doesn't parallel your description. That is not to say your perception isn't correct, I only attended the one meeting (in Hollister, if I recall correctly), but I enjoyed excellent fellowship and still enjoy good relationships with many of the men I met at that meeting.<br /><br />My experience with FBF men since has been entirely positive. The meeting in the Northwest is a great blessing and encouragement each year. The men in leadership nationally are very supportive of small church pastors. I am glad to be associated with them.<br /><br />Quite frankly, I suspect that your disenchantment has more to do with the specific issues you wanted to raise than with any failings of these men.<br /><br />Nevertheless, we all could stand improvement and I am all for attempting to take on the hard issues as needed and for the faithful preaching of the Bible. When we need correction, I hope we have the humility to receive it. I believe the current FBF leadership is open to biblical admonition and direction.<br /><br />Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-2589044492588477452011-02-22T16:25:22.024-08:002011-02-22T16:25:22.024-08:00I agree that Bro. B. is indeed doing a service by ...I agree that Bro. B. is indeed doing a service by these posts. <br /><br />I would also say that the FBF, in my experience, has gotten better about some of the problems you raise here. <br /><br />I think an inherent weakness, though, of a an official organization of fellowship system is lack of clarity on what differences in belief will be accepted. We are rightly wary about giving the fellowship organization the clout of a Presbytery, but the FBF remains a variegated group. <br /><br />That said, the folks I encounter within it tend to be expositors and willing to discuss difficult topics. <br /><br />Again, my experience over a decade later than yours.d4v34xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346680257860879900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47398011067813066222011-02-22T07:51:11.383-08:002011-02-22T07:51:11.383-08:00Thanks, Brother Kent.
I thank God every day that ...Thanks, Brother Kent.<br /><br />I thank God every day that my father taught me not to be "wowed" by names and men, but by the Word of God.<br /><br />I heard Hyles in person twice while in Bible college, and each message was a twisting of Scripture. In one, it was very close to blasphemous.<br /><br />I really think you are doing a service by writing these posts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-17109002575860324472011-02-22T06:20:54.425-08:002011-02-22T06:20:54.425-08:00Hi Pastor Brandenburger,
I did read the whole thi...Hi Pastor Brandenburger,<br /><br />I did read the whole thing, but wanted to make a couple of comments about some things near the top of the article.<br /><br />1) "One, the professors and many graduates mocked the King James Version. E. Robert Jordan was a King James advocate, but the school already ridiculed the translation while he was still the pastor of the church."<br /><br />Sounds like there was a serious need for church discipline there. Not just because of the heresy introduced on the versions issue itself, but also because the whole attitude of the professors (assuming, perhaps wrongly, that they were even members of that local church) is one of divisiveness towards the unity of that local church, since they presumably know that the pastor and the church "officially" at least still took a pro-KJV position.<br /><br />2) That's interesting about MacArthur and his position on the blood. You still hear a lot of the "he denies the blood" stuff today. I think I'd even read that in the past, and repeated it based upon literature pushed by D.A. Waite's Bible for Today publishing group. So, I recant of having said that MacArthur denies the blood of Jesus Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-56765294095251937142011-02-22T04:28:57.697-08:002011-02-22T04:28:57.697-08:00Brother Brandenburg,
You give an accurate descript...Brother Brandenburg,<br />You give an accurate description of both the FBF & Hyles fellowships. At least I can say that it matches my experience. I had the same concerns. I stopped attending the FBF meetings after realizing that they were never going to address the disobedience in their own fellowship ... but would keep preaching against the Pope and having Protestant, Calvinist, non-Pretrib Presbyterians like Paisley, etc. Once I attended Pastor's School in Hammond. They gave an award to a woman for "winning" 600 people to Christ in one week. I wasn't sure what they were doing there, but I knew that it was not New Testament evangelism.Gary Webbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-89186026161135825572011-02-22T03:34:43.665-08:002011-02-22T03:34:43.665-08:00Brother Brandenburg,
Thanks very much for taking ...Brother Brandenburg,<br /><br />Thanks very much for taking the time to write this. Especially for being a forward thinking guy !:)<br /><br />It is worth mentioning that while giving the fbf their fair shake they never exposed error in their "camp". They didn't even mention it. <br /><br />Isn't this symptomatic of fundamentalism today? You'll probably never see an article in the Sword exposing error in their camp. To the current editor Shelton Smith and his credit he at least tries to defend their stand on certain issues, albeit poorly. Try googling their stand on the King James bible as evidence to the fact.<br /><br />Lastly, and more importantly. I hope and pray for those that are curently going to a Hyles church or college. That they would start to question what they're being fed and get into the Word of God and search the Scriptures. That they would Google Hyles and error and hopefully come across this blog and the many others and begin to see that something just doesn't add up. I am optimistic, it happened to me!<br /><br />We are nothing, to God alone be all the glory.<br /><br />Respectfully Submitted,<br /><br />Br. Steve<br /><br />Gal.2.20philipians2511https://www.blogger.com/profile/17196287320434925537noreply@blogger.com