tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post1172790912640301701..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: Do You Pray for an Outpouring of the Spirit?Kent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-7396835316273707932006-12-13T17:35:00.000-08:002006-12-13T17:35:00.000-08:00Ok, Caleb, I tell you what. We really are off topi...Ok, Caleb, I tell you what. We really are off topic on Kent's article anyway. What I suggest is that I will write up something on why I reject this offer of the kingdom doctrine and post it on my own blog. It may take me a week or so. The address is:<br /><br />http://ebaptist.blogspot.com/<br /><br />You can commment there if you like, as I said, I don't want to get drawn into a lengthy discussion, but I will at least give a rationale for the statements I have made here. Is that fair enough?<br /><br />Regards,<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-39182232473617508312006-12-13T08:55:00.000-08:002006-12-13T08:55:00.000-08:00Don,
Why is this a fruitless online argument? I am...Don,<br />Why is this a fruitless online argument? I am honestly trying to learn what you believe and more importantly why you do.<br /><br />I completely and whole heartedly believe that Jesus Christ is the "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world." I don't think that nullifies my belief though. I think it is a false characterization to say that the Cross was "plan B." Acts 15:18 tells us that "known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world." This includes his plan for Israel, His plan for the church, and Christs death on the Cross. Isaiah 55:8 tells us "my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." I admit I don't totally understand all of this, but there are many things I don't totally understand that I have to just accept. Maybe a way to understand it is that this was Gods "myster plan." Ephesians 3 talks about this. The Cross is not to be minimized or diminished through this belief. Paul tells us in Galations 6:14 God forbid that we should boast in anything else.<br />God gave Israel the opportunity to accept Christ as Messiah just as he made Salvation open to all who will believe. He knows who will and who won't believe, but he doesn't force us into believing. We are given free will just as Israel was given free will ("the kingdom of heaven is at hand") to accept Christ as Messiah. They rejected him. God knew this would happen so there is no "plan b." This is just God dealing with man. <br />My apolgies for messing up Matthew 6. I should have said Luke 11. That was careless. -- Caleb<br /><br />P.S. for some reason I am having to post anonomously. I couldn't get it through any other way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-17957383389176857212006-12-12T21:29:00.000-08:002006-12-12T21:29:00.000-08:00Sorry, Caleb, I won't bite. I don't have time for ...Sorry, Caleb, I won't bite. I don't have time for a fruitless online argument. The only point I will make is that I didn't just give you nothing to back up my statements. I gave you this:<br /><br />Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.<br /><br />This time I'm giving you the reference as well. The point is that the crucifixion was God's eternal plan. The Scriptures plainly declare it.<br /><br />The mythical offer to Israel has nothing to back it up except human reasoning. There is no plain declaration in the Scriptures concerning that point, but there is plenty about the Lord's eternal plan for the crucifixion. What was Isaiah 53 about? A conditional statement? If you don't accept the kingdom, I'll kill the Messiah?<br /><br />There is plenty of literature on the subject, written by dispensationalists, you can find it and read it yourself.<br /><br />BTW, you made an error regarding Mt 6 and the Lord's Prayer, stating that the disciples asked the Lord to teach them to pray. Not on that occasion. Different context, two different renderings of the same teaching. The Mt 6 instance was part of the Sermon on the Mount, not the occasion on which the disciples asked the Lord to teach them to pray.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-11667946177114704302006-12-12T19:02:00.000-08:002006-12-12T19:02:00.000-08:00Don,
Please tell me what "system" I am using? If ...Don,<br />Please tell me what "system" I am using? If you mean dispensationalism then, I guess I'm guilty. 1 Timothy 2:15 tells us to "rightly divide the word of truth." Ephesians 3:2 talks of "the dispensation of the Grace of God." Romans 15:4 talks about those things written "aforetime," being written for our LEARNING (not to us, but for us). As I'm sure you know, there are many other verses teaching dispensationalism, so I believe that there is "explicit Biblical revelation for this view." It's a shame that you believe I am using human reasoning when I believe that I have merely compared scripture with scripture. Please tell me where I went wrong. Jesus told the Disciples to go only "to the sheep of the lost house of Israel (Matt 10:5-7)." <br /><br /> "John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus and the disciples all proclaimed this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand' (Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 10:7). The expression 'at hand' means near. The King Himself had come to earth and the kingdom was so near it was almost here! But one fact must not be forgotten. The kingdom offer was conditional. It was offered on the condition of repentance.(taken from Middletown Bible Church website)." If the Jews had accepted him as Messiah, Christ would have begun his reign then. Where is the human reasoning? Please provide me with scripture to refute my position rather than make a statement with nothing to back it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-60079371231080679092006-12-11T10:26:00.000-08:002006-12-11T10:26:00.000-08:00Like all systems, the one Caleb is espousing is si...Like all systems, the one Caleb is espousing is simply human reasoning. There is no explicit Biblical revelation for this view. It is human reasoning posing as Scriptural interpretation and should be roundly rejected.<br /><br /><br />And no, the kingdom would not have come if the Jews had accepted Christ. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The cross wasn't plan B.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-73434932454537298532006-12-09T05:37:00.000-08:002006-12-09T05:37:00.000-08:00Be careful as I get my foot in my mouth, but...All...Be careful as I get my foot in my mouth, but...All my adult life and maybe before (can't remember) we have always prayed for the "out pouring" of the Holy Spirit before, during and after any service.<br /> <br />Revival comes from within the heart of the believer when they are awakened to the needs of their Christian lives.<br /><br />I have heard many times during the invitation at the end of a srvice.."Do you need to rededicate your life to the Lord"? Never have I found that in the Bible.<br />Confess your sins?....YES!<br />Abandon your worldly ways? YES!<br />Give God your ENTIRE life? YES!<br />As Paul said...."for me to live is Christ...to die is gain"!<br /><br />And, for anyone that might wish to know...I gave up on SI a long time ago..way to much "self serving" there. It reminds me of the "word verification" part of blogging.<br /><br />Just one woman's opinion....Now, excuse me while I go and see if I can extract this foot from my mouth!!<br /><br />ILAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-22020219600382130692006-12-08T19:07:00.000-08:002006-12-08T19:07:00.000-08:00Caleb,
I can't accept the Sermon on the Mount as ...Caleb,<br /><br />I can't accept the Sermon on the Mount as just for something for a hypothetical kingdom like some people have taught down at Dallas Theological Seminary among other places. This teaching is found in Luke 11 and in Matthew 6 and I believe it is for all believers. We are already members of His kingdom by being born again (John 3:3ff), and we pray for the literal physical kingdom to come as well. The Jews, by the way, also would have known the kingdom was coming, based on OT prophesies, so it really does not change anything on this praying for something that you don't have versus praying for what you don't have. We don't have the kingdom and it is coming and we will be in it, but we are still to pray for it. If your view is true, the Jews are still waiting for the kingdom, but Jesus brought both Jew and Gentile together in the church.<br /><br />The Holy Spirit we do have, so we don't pray for an outpouring of Him.<br /><br />Stop quenching the Holy Spirit is good.<br /><br />Thanks for asking, Caleb.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-20373226857757170262006-12-08T16:15:00.000-08:002006-12-08T16:15:00.000-08:00I don't read SI, although I hear a lot about it in...I don't read SI, although I hear a lot about it in the parts of the blogosphere that I venture into. That said, your post seems right on. Everyone seems to look at revival differently. And it certainly is true that people are often seeking for an emotional experience rather than for the power of God to serve Him in winning souls and living for Him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-47778092203256895182006-12-08T15:05:00.000-08:002006-12-08T15:05:00.000-08:00I would have to say that this statement by Pastor ...I would have to say that this statement by Pastor Roof is a commonplace among fundamentalists in particular. Whether we have evidence for it or not, it certainly is a view of revival that has been held for many years.<br /><br />In fairness, I'm sure that when he spoke of evidences, he was referring to the multitude of conversions, not the cloven tongues. It is a good point to show that <i>if</i> Acts 2 gives the evidence of genuine revival, then the cloven tongues should be included.<br /><br />I think that the past generations of Independent Baptists (in particular) held pretty common views of revival that were greatly influenced by Finney in particular. This would be an example.<br /><br />That being said, to overcome this commonly held idea, I think we need to look more carefully at what revival is (biblically) rather than what we want it to be. <br /><br />I preached from Habakkuk 3:2 last Sunday morning, and in preparation, studied the word for revival found there. It was interesting to note that of the 235 some odd times the Hebrew word was used, nearly 200 of the uses referred to "life", "alive", or something similar. <br /><br />That being said, I felt like we had a nice little breath of revival this past week, and look forward to even more (I hope). We certainly were refreshed here.<br /><br />Blessings!Dave Mallinakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01251231774542596620noreply@blogger.com