tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post115048647757649367..comments2023-12-22T08:29:29.230-08:00Comments on WHAT IS TRUTH: What the Evangelicals Have On the FundamentalistsKent Brandenburghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150735298681982422006-06-19T09:41:00.000-07:002006-06-19T09:41:00.000-07:00Joel,The church separates over doctrine (Rom. 16:1...Joel,<BR/><BR/>The church separates over doctrine (Rom. 16:17, as you mentioned, but also 2 Thess. 3:6-15, certainly the gospel, Gal. 1:6-9, and worship, 2 Cor. 6:14-17). Separation is a Scriptural means by which a church glorifies God, protect her own purity, encourages the purity of others, and protects the truth. We should unify and cooperate with other churches of like faith and practice. We have that example in Scripture, but nothing in Scripture commands us to do it. True fellowship comes in the church (local) and people should learn to enjoy it.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150664562422636342006-06-18T14:02:00.000-07:002006-06-18T14:02:00.000-07:00Jay,You say "Most of us fundamentalists believe st...Jay,<BR/><BR/>You say "Most of us fundamentalists believe strongly in the preservation of the Biblical text."<BR/>Where are they? If you know where they are, than you know which ones are not and should expose them as counterfiets. If we can not seperate over the words of God what can we sepereate over? If you do not know where they are than what kind of sorry preservation was that? You subtract from God's omniscience and omnipotence. <BR/><BR/>By the way Jesus, in His ministry NEVER NEVER questioned the authority of a passage. He recognized that God's people had God's words just as God said (Is 59:21) He never says the "oldest maniscripts say this". Neither did Paul, Peter or any one in the NT. Our position lines up with theirs, we are in good company. You rely on scholarship and history instead faith in God's promises. Your position is foreign to the way God's people viewed His words. Actually, your positon lines up more with the serpent in the garden "Yea hath God said?"<BR/><BR/>BJ NordgrenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150658760124958032006-06-18T12:26:00.000-07:002006-06-18T12:26:00.000-07:00Not ashamed to say that the Words of God originall...Not ashamed to say that the Words of God originally inspired have been providentially preserved in the TR/Masoretic and in the King James Bible. <BR/><BR/>Call me whatever you'd like. I believe that the only English translation that qualifies as the preserved word of God is the KJV.<BR/><BR/>Hey, Jay, do you separate from Ian R. K. Paisley since he believes like me? Do you separate from those who have not separated from him--as in BJU, Rod Bell, FBF, etc.? If you are right and they need to obey the doctrine of separation as it applies to IRKP then they are disobedient, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150645203708047572006-06-18T08:40:00.000-07:002006-06-18T08:40:00.000-07:00Jeff,I took it as colloquial. Colloquial works. ...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I took it as colloquial. Colloquial works. What to do with family is a big conversation on separation, truly.<BR/><BR/>KBKent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150645119761499182006-06-18T08:38:00.000-07:002006-06-18T08:38:00.000-07:00Joel,Jay knows that I believe that God preserved a...Joel,<BR/><BR/>Jay knows that I believe that God preserved all of His Words and that one specific translation is all we have translated in it, the KJV. Obviously, providence, omniscience and etc. were not required to leave 100 translations and manuscripts strewn all over the planet. Preserving every word, all of them, and making them available fits with a Scriptural model. However, to allow freedom to disagree in this forum, I have included Jay's comments with that disclaimer.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150629296379043872006-06-18T04:14:00.000-07:002006-06-18T04:14:00.000-07:00Jeff said, "I don't have a come from a big family,...Jeff said, <I>"I don't have a come from a big family, but I gots cousins and 2nd cousins and that I don't fellowship with much. I even have some relatives that I would keep my family away from, they're still family though."</I><BR/><BR/>After reading what I wrote there, I don't know if I should post anywhere, even if the water's fine. Hopefully, people can interpret my horrible grammar.Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718288010688756299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150613554910350842006-06-17T23:52:00.000-07:002006-06-17T23:52:00.000-07:00Throwback13-Saw your comment, and yes, there is a ...Throwback13-<BR/><BR/>Saw your comment, and yes, there is a point where it's necessary to separate because of bad doctrine. It's a real shame when we're forced to do so, but our loyalties to Christ and His Doctrine, not to fellowshipping with everyone who's a believer.<BR/><BR/>Case in point. Most of us fundamentalists believe strongly in the preservation of the Biblical text. Some of us argue that it's preserved in a specific style and type of manuscript, some of us believe that God has preserved His word through all the manuscripts. I can fellowship with all those people. But a specific sect - that God has divinely preserved His Word <B>through only one specific Bible translation</B> is a different doctrine that subtracts from God's Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Provident Hand. There's a lot more to the story than that, but I will refuse to fellowship with those believers, because they have superimposed a set of presuppositions on doctine. <BR/><BR/>It's a long story, and I hope it makes sense. You can PM me at SharperIron [or start a thread] if you'd like to continue the conversation.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685684588191291542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150601819016954292006-06-17T20:36:00.000-07:002006-06-17T20:36:00.000-07:00Jeff, I'm glad you are watching at SI. Jump in. ...Jeff, I'm glad you are watching at SI. Jump in. The water is fine. BobbyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150600173890678132006-06-17T20:09:00.000-07:002006-06-17T20:09:00.000-07:00I think you could really go somewhere with this if...I think you could really go somewhere with this if you developed the family aspect of it. I don't know if I'm responding to this post or all the discussion at <A HREF="http://www.sharperiron.org/showthread.php?t=2415" REL="nofollow">Sharper Iron</A> about this post.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I think the family metaphor (is that what it is?) could be explored. I don't have a come from a big family, but I gots cousins and 2nd cousins and that I don't fellowship with much. I even have some relatives that I would keep my family away from, they're still family though.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, there's the start of another post from WHAT IS TRUTH?Jeff Voegtlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718288010688756299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150597022015282292006-06-17T19:17:00.000-07:002006-06-17T19:17:00.000-07:00Well, I see even since I have been away the past d...Well, I see even since I have been away the past days,we are back to multiple opinions, which is fairly realistic since we are human. While I cannot totally agree with you Pastor, nor can I totally agree with "Throwback13", I must say his posed question on "division by doctine" gives one food for thought. There is a song about "singing in the heavenly choir" and I bet there is one about the "heavenly doctine"? And you would know that as well Pastor? Who gets to decide about the "wrong interpretation" of scripture?<BR/><BR/>Blessings from the Hill,<BR/>RuthRuthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410800908419272090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150584672572567982006-06-17T15:51:00.000-07:002006-06-17T15:51:00.000-07:00Dave,Thanks for commenting. You say fifteen, but ...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for commenting. You say fifteen, but it is probably more like 7 or 8. Each of those is a generic usage of the singular noun. Let me give you one example as a for instance: Eph. 5:23, "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." There is no universal church, Dave, any more than there is no universal husband or wife.<BR/><BR/>The singular noun can only be used as a particular or generic, so you have your choice; a Platonic, Augustinian usage isn't available, unless someone wants to make it up (which they already have). Body and assembly are by nature local.<BR/><BR/>Again, thanks for commenting. The problem, which you agreed upon, comes from this wrong interpretation of Scripture. I've found that all my problems come from something unscriptural.Kent Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150580839154188452006-06-17T14:47:00.000-07:002006-06-17T14:47:00.000-07:00Very thought provoking; although I disagree with y...Very thought provoking; although I disagree with your position, I agree with much of your analysis of the situation. I begin to see from where you are coming. One question: of the over 100 times in the New Testament that ekklesia is used, I would agree that the overwhelming majority of them refer to the local church. This makes sense because in the epistles Paul appeals to tangible local churches with real problems and situations. However, I think you would be hard pressed with at least 15 of those passages in trying to make a solid case for local church. Is there a possiblity that the universal church is made up of local churches (which if properly baptistic would be comprised of professing believers only)?Dave Marriotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872448688343944443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150567168290708962006-06-17T10:59:00.000-07:002006-06-17T10:59:00.000-07:00Well...Pastor B, as I expected you kinda lost your...Well...Pastor B, as I expected you kinda lost yourself with 100. Must have been your magic number, eh? I might give you a decent score on 118-120 but you're over the edge again with 121. Not that it makes any difference. As you see I still take the time to read them even tho at times I have not a clue what you're saying. It is entertaining and obviously other people have at least a minor hint at what you're talking about. I would prefer to think I congregate with fellow believers. If not, I am sure I am an influence on the others. Just one ladies opinion.<BR/>The again it could be the "word verification" that's throwing you off?<BR/><BR/>ILAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150566336710058992006-06-17T10:45:00.000-07:002006-06-17T10:45:00.000-07:00Regarding the jail-cell statement: Actually, I ho...Regarding the jail-cell statement: <BR/><BR/>Actually, I hope that I would take advantage of the opportunity to instruct him in the way of the Lord more perfectly. With God's help I would hope to teach him concerning the Bible doctrine of separation among other doctrines of the Scriptures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150554658235063442006-06-17T07:30:00.000-07:002006-06-17T07:30:00.000-07:00I bet you would fellowship with a new envangelical...I bet you would fellowship with a new envangelical if you were locked in a jail cell with him in some foreign city because you are the only two Christian missionaries there. I am betting that separation nits will not be that important then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1150516504176884942006-06-16T20:55:00.000-07:002006-06-16T20:55:00.000-07:00Exactly. Bingo. Right on. Nailed it. Direct hi...Exactly. Bingo. Right on. Nailed it. Direct hit. Precisely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com